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Waterbearers....pay heed

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  • sirkilian
    From the President, Patrick Anderson: Earlier this year, I was asked by several people in the waterbearing community to examine the various laws of states and
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 17, 2008
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      From the President, Patrick Anderson:


      Earlier this year, I was asked by several people in the waterbearing
      community to examine the various laws of states and countries related
      to waterbearing as an organized and official activity of the SCA, Inc.
      Various states have informed officers of the SCA, Inc. that while our
      activity does not directly violate the food codes or health egulations
      of their states, if there were to be an outbreak of illness, the SCA,
      Inc. could be held liable for that outbreak. Several health care
      professionals and attorneys have reviewed this topic and agree with
      this assessment.


      I was asked to examine the best way to both ensure a safe fighting
      environment for our fighters, and to comply with the various state and
      country laws. The relevant laws vary from state by state, county by
      county and country by country. I determined that the best way to do
      this would be to make "waterbearing" unofficial and unsanctioned by
      the SCA, Inc. and proposed this change to the Board. The only other
      option would be to regulate waterbearing, and to regulate it such
      that it follows the various food safety codes of the various states
      and countries the SCA participates in. This would be unwieldy,
      impractical and expensive for the SCA to do. Further, it is likely
      that waterbearers would not be able to continue to serve our fighters
      using any of the current methods of waterbearing.


      The proposal put before the membership for comment would stop
      waterbearing by any SCA branch or other official group. The SCA would
      not have an office of waterbearer at any level. Marshals would still
      be permitted to allow waterbearers on the field, but any waterbearing
      must not be done by any officially sanctioned or regulated groups of
      the SCA. Households are welcome to provide water to fighters, as are
      unofficial and unrecognized "guilds". This does not bar groups from
      putting out the "serve yourself water coolers" at events. (In my
      Kingdom they are usually the big orange cylinders.)


      The Board and Corporate officers understand that many people have
      spent time waterbearing within the official framework, and now hope
      that you continue to volunteer unofficially. This proposal has been
      brought to enable fighters to continue to have a waterbearing service
      provided to them, without the extremely strict governance that
      official waterbearing will require.


      The actual text of the proposed rule is below. This rule has not yet
      been approved by the Board, and is being sent out for comment here.
      The Directors request comments from the membership regarding this
      proposed revision no later than October 1st, 2008. Please send them
      to:
      Corpora Revision
      SCA Inc.
      Box 360789
      Milpitas CA, 95036
      email: comments@...


      Thank you for commenting.


      Patrick Anderson
      President, Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.


      Proposed language to be added to Corpora:
      The activity of providing beverages to combatants and spectators at
      SCA Combat activities is not regulated, warranted, organized,
      controlled, or sanctioned by the SCA, Inc. or any affiliate or
      subsidiary entity. All warrants, authorizations, or other formal
      recognition of this activity are by publication of this change
      revoked. This document does not either address or restrict such
      volunteer activity or the methods by which it occurs.
      --
      Patrick Anderson
      President
      Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.
      president@...
      952-412-4112



      Comments are strongly encouraged and can be sent to: SCA Inc.
      Box 360789
      Milpitas, CA 95036


      You may also email comments@....


      This announcement is an official informational release by the Society
      for Creative Anachronism , Inc. Permission is granted to reproduce
      this announcement in its entirety in newsletters, websites and
      electronic mailing lists.
    • alta_gioiosa
      My memory is that originally the water-bearing service was started up by the Chirurgeonate. Is there any reason not to put this back under their supervision?
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 19, 2008
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        My memory is that originally the water-bearing service was started
        up by the Chirurgeonate. Is there any reason not to put this back
        under their supervision? Labeled not as "serving beverages", but
        as "providing first aid", i.e. mitigating the preliminary signs of
        heat exhaustion? Would this be a better option, since our first aid
        crew is properly trained, and able to administer other minor
        treatment, like bandaids and such?

        Teleri


        --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, "sirkilian" <sirkilian@...> wrote:
        >
        > From the President, Patrick Anderson:
        >
        >
        > Earlier this year, I was asked by several people in the
        waterbearing
        > community to examine the various laws of states and countries
        related
        > to waterbearing as an organized and official activity of the SCA,
        Inc.
        > Various states have informed officers of the SCA, Inc. that while
        our
        > activity does not directly violate the food codes or health
        egulations
        > of their states, if there were to be an outbreak of illness, the
        SCA,
        > Inc. could be held liable for that outbreak. Several health care
        > professionals and attorneys have reviewed this topic and agree
        with
        > this assessment.

        ...lots more snipped...
      • suzanearley@comcast.net
        The problem deals with food/beverage distribution itself and the modern regulations surrounding that practice, not the reason for the food/beverage
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 19, 2008
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          The problem deals with food/beverage distribution itself and the modern regulations surrounding that practice, not the reason for the food/beverage distribution.
           
          Ghita
          -------------- Original message --------------
          From: "alta_gioiosa" <alta_gioiosa@...>

          >
          > My memory is that originally the water-bearing service was started
          > up by the Chirurgeonate. Is there any reason not to put this back
          > under their supervision? Labeled not as "serving beverages", but
          > as "providing first aid", i.e. mitigating the preliminary signs of
          > heat exhaustion? Would this be a better option, since our first aid
          > crew is properly trained, and able to administer other minor
          > treatment, like bandaids and such?
          >
          > Teleri
          >
          >
          > --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, "sirkilian" wrote:
          > >
          > > From the President, Patrick Anderson:
          > >
          > >
          > > Earlier this year, I was asked by several people in the
          > waterbear ing
          > > community to examine the various laws of states and countries
          > related
          > > to waterbearing as an organized and official activity of the SCA,
          > Inc.
          > > Various states have informed officers of the SCA, Inc. that while
          > our
          > > activity does not directly violate the food codes or health
          > egulations
          > > of their states, if there were to be an outbreak of illness, the
          > SCA,
          > > Inc. could be held liable for that outbreak. Several health care
          > > professionals and attorneys have reviewed this topic and agree
          > with
          > > this assessment.
          >
          > ...lots more snipped...
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > ~~~~~
          >
          > To view and add events to the calendar:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/cal/
          >
          > To discontinue receiving discussion, but still receive announcemen ts, go to
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/join and change your subscription to
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          >
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        • Tom Hughes
          Two years ago at Pennsic, someone spiked several of the water jugs in the water bearers tent with clear Gatorade. Two youth combatants, who have diabetes,
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 19, 2008
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            Two years ago at Pennsic, someone “spiked” several of the water jugs in the water bearers’ tent with clear Gatorade.  Two youth combatants, who have diabetes, went down with electrolyte imbalance problems.  The kids were ultimately okay but this gave a huge scare regarding potential liability.

             

            The sins of a few cause problems for the whole.

             

            Sean

             

            From: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ayreton@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of suzanearley@...
            Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:40 PM
            To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Re: Waterbearers....pay heed

             

            The problem deals with food/beverage distribution itself and the modern regulations surrounding that practice, not the reason for the food/beverage distribution.

             

            Ghita

            -------------- Original message --------------
            From: "alta_gioiosa" <alta_gioiosa@...>

            >
            > My memory is that originally the water-bearing service was started
            > up by the Chirurgeonate. Is there any reason not to put this back
            > under their supervision? Labeled not as "serving beverages", but
            > as "providing first aid", i.e. mitigating the preliminary signs of
            > heat exhaustion? Would this be a better option, since our first aid
            > crew is properly trained, and able to administer other minor
            > treatment, like bandaids and such?
            >
            > Teleri
            >
            >
            > --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, "sirkilian" wrote:
            > >
            > > From the President, Patrick Anderson:
            > >
            > >
            > > Earlier this year, I was asked by several people in the
            > waterbear ing
            > > community to examine the various laws of states and countries
            > related
            > > to waterbearing as an organized and official activity of the SCA,
            > Inc.
            > > Various states have informed officers of the SCA, Inc. that while
            > our
            > > activity does not directly violate the food codes or health
            > egulations
            > > of their states, if there were to be an outbreak of illness, the
            > SCA,
            > > Inc. could be held liable for that outbreak. Several health care
            > > professionals and attorneys have reviewed this topic and agree
            > with
            > > this assessment.
            >
            > ...lots more snipped...
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > ~~~~~
            >
            > To view and add events to the calendar:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/cal/
            >
            > To discontinue receiving discussion, but still receive announcemen ts, go to
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/join and change your subscription to
            > "Special Notices". Activities coordinators, to get access to post Special
            > Notices, send a request to .
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/
            >
            > <*> Your email settings:
            > Individual Email | Traditional
            >
            > <*> To change settings online go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/join
            > (Yahoo! ID required)
            >
            > <*> To change settings via email:
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            >
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            > http://docs.yah oo.com/info/terms/
            >

          • Ehrenfried Schertenleib
            In that case lunches and feasts should be done by licensed caterers. Ehrenfried ... modern regulations surrounding that practice, not the reason for the
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 20, 2008
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              In that case lunches and feasts should be done by licensed caterers.

              Ehrenfried

              --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, suzanearley@... wrote:
              >
              > The problem deals with food/beverage distribution itself and the
              modern regulations surrounding that practice, not the reason for the
              food/beverage distribution.
              >
              > Ghita
              > -------------- Original message --------------
              > From: "alta_gioiosa" <alta_gioiosa@...>
              >
              > >
              > > My memory is that originally the water-bearing service was
              started
              > > up by the Chirurgeonate. Is there any reason not to put this back
              > > under their supervision? Labeled not as "serving beverages", but
              > > as "providing first aid", i.e. mitigating the preliminary signs
              of
              > > heat exhaustion? Would this be a better option, since our first
              aid
              > > crew is properly trained, and able to administer other minor
              > > treatment, like bandaids and such?
              > >
              > > Teleri
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, "sirkilian" wrote:
              > > >
              > > > From the President, Patrick Anderson:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Earlier this year, I was asked by several people in the
              > > waterbearing
              > > > community to examine the various laws of states and countries
              > > related
              > > > to waterbearing as an organized and official activity of the
              SCA,
              > > Inc.
              > > > Various states have informed officers of the SCA, Inc. that
              while
              > > our
              > > > activity does not directly violate the food codes or health
              > > egulations
              > > > of their states, if there were to be an outbreak of illness,
              the
              > > SCA,
              > > > Inc. could be held liable for that outbreak. Several health
              care
              > > > professionals and attorneys have reviewed this topic and agree
              > > with
              > > > this assessment.
              > >
              > > ...lots more snipped...
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > ~~~~~
              > >
              > > To view and add events to the calendar:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/cal/
              > >
              > > To discontinue receiving discussion, but still receive
              announcements, go to
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/join and change your
              subscription to
              > > "Special Notices". Activities coordinators, to get access to post
              Special
              > > Notices, send a request to .
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • David Roland
              I believe the actual certification is called Food Safe , but I could be wrong about the title. In fact there are several scadians in the area who are food
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 21, 2008
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                I believe the actual certification is called "Food Safe", but I could
                be wrong about the title. In fact there are several scadians in the
                area who are "food safe" qualified and it has come in handy. Some
                sites in the area have required a food safe person to be on site
                during the cooking and preparing of food. If we didn't have one the
                site would have provided one to us at additional cost.

                However, the waterbearing issue isn't saying that there can be no
                water bearing done at events. I believe the proposal (which is all it
                is for now but I am guessing it will pass), specifically states that
                water bearing isn't being banned simple that SCA, Inc will no longer
                be sponsoring it in any way.

                I have seen a lot of waterbearing done at the several local events
                that take place. Most of which, to my knowledge, is done outside the
                auspices of any official SCA water bearing warrant(s). I'm fully
                willing to admit that I could be wrong on that point but as there have
                been very few events that I have seen any water bearing symbols on the
                people doing water bearing I feel that is likely a safe conclusion.

                We're helpful and nice folks, I really don't see this having a huge
                impact locally though at larger inter-kingdom events, I am certain it
                will get interesting. I for one am sad to see this measure taken but
                also understand at least some of the reasoning behind it and support
                that reasoning.

                Just my thoughts,

                Ian the Green


                --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, "Ehrenfried Schertenleib"
                <sgt_ehrenfried@...> wrote:
                >
                > In that case lunches and feasts should be done by licensed caterers.
                >
                > Ehrenfried
                >
                > --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, suzanearley@ wrote:
                > >
                > > The problem deals with food/beverage distribution itself and the
                > modern regulations surrounding that practice, not the reason for the
                > food/beverage distribution.
                > >
                > > Ghita
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