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Re: [Ayreton] Re: Ayreton Groups

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  • Philippa of Otterbourne
    I think Master Philip brings up a valid point. In the past we ve never elected the Lord Mayor. With the talk of a barony and now an election for Lord Mayor,
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 18, 2008
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      I think Master Philip brings up a valid point.  In the past we've never elected the Lord Mayor. 
      With the talk of a barony and now an election for Lord Mayor, it might be more prudent to define said role before any election process. 
       
      Is the Lord Mayor to remain a non-official figurehead of the area groups? Or will the Lord Mayor become a non-offical figurehead of the new barony (thereby excluding Ravenslake and Greyhope members from the selection process and/or from serving as Lord Mayor or will we allow non-Baronial groups to participate?)
       
      If the purpose of the Lord Mayor is to serve as the representative of the area seneschals, shouldn't that be up to the seneschals to decide who it will be?  Would we need an election in this case?  Furthermore, if this is the Lord Mayor's purpose in a new Barony, isn't it redundant?  Wouldn't the canton seneschals be in communication with a baronial seneschal who then would not need a mouthpiece?  Wouldn't the Baron and Baroness be the representatives of the area?  As a barony would we need a Lord Mayor?
       
      The populace is being asked to elect a Lord Mayor for the first time, in a time of potential dramatic change with little or no information on exactly what the Lord Mayor will be responsible for.   How are people expected to apply and vote responsibly if they don't know what the office entails (and I use the term office loosely when it is non-official in nature to begin with).
       
      Humbly,
       
      Philippa of Otterbourne
       
       
       
      On 2/18/08, Craig <philipwhite@...> wrote:
      That is what I would have thought too…

      But I wonder if peoples' perceptions are changing since we've been
      more formally talking about a shell Barony.

      I've heard a comment or two about how the Town Mayor works as a
      representative of the five seneschals (implying the five seneschals
      that could possible be part of a shell Barony). I've also heard
      general comments about how the Mayor might work as a non-official
      figurehead as part of a Baronial transition.

      What do people think?

      Depending on how everyone feels, this could play a major factor on if
      someone wants to apply to be Mayor.

      Just some thoughts…
      ~Philip



      --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, AlexdeSet@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > Greetings!
      >
      >      In no particular order, Tree-Girt-Sea, Grey Gargoyles,
      Ravenslake, Rokkehealden, Vanished Wood, Foxvale. I have heard
      Greyhope added in from time to time. I think Ayreton is more of an
      attitude than a geographic location.
      >
      > Is mise le meas,
      >
      > Alexander de Seton
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Craig <philipwhite@...>
      > To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 7:20 am
      > Subject: [Ayreton] Ayreton Groups
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Greetings All,
      >
      > So I have what I think should be a simple question … but worth
      asking
      > with elections announced and Town Meetings upcoming.
      >
      > What groups currently comprise what we refer to as the "Town of
      > Ayreton"?
      >
      > Thanks!
      > ~Philip
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
      http://webmail.aol.com
      >




      ~~~~~

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      --
      Philippa
    • David Roland
      Having worked with three mayors I can tell you what we discussed as the Mayor s Role. The Towne of Ayreton comprises the 6 groups mentions by Alexander De
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 18, 2008
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        Having worked with three mayors I can tell you what we discussed as
        the Mayor's Role.

        The Towne of Ayreton comprises the 6 groups mentions by Alexander De
        Seton.

        The Mayor of Ayreton, in my experience, is only a figurehead. A focal
        point, who did various things depending on who was Mayor. They have
        no official power and in my experience were NOT a representative of
        the any seneschals. Being a representative implies that that person
        is vested with authority and power. The mayor has neither. Towne
        meetings were started under THL Acelina in her tenure as Mayor as a
        way to discuss the Ayreton Carival event. Towne meetings still do
        that as well as serve as a way to have a focal point for the groups to
        come together and discuss other subjects as well.

        But the Mayor itself has no authority and power. What the Mayor does
        have, it visibility and with that recognition and hopefully some
        charisma and charm. In the process of investigation of barony only
        the seneschal's of the groups participating have authority and power,
        something that was made clear in the last two mayor's reigns. The
        Mayor however is still a focal point and since it is at town meetings
        that barony is discussed the Mayor leads the discussion but does not
        direct it. If you look around at most town meetings you will see the
        seneschals of most of the 6 groups that comprise the Towne of Ayreton
        there if not all of them.

        I support the Mayor of Ayreton whomever that is. I certainly have
        served three of them. But I also know, have seen and understand that
        the Mayor is nothing more than a figurehead who has no official power.
        Power of influence, certainly. Does that mean that they can't be
        something more? Nooooo. But we work within the limitations, few that
        they are, of what the SCA and Middle Kingdom Law allows and, no matter
        how well intentioned, can not overstep those without creating problems
        that no Mayor I have worked with wished to create.

        So in short the Towne Mayor is a figurehead. The Towne Mayor is not a
        representative of the Seneschals of the groups that comprise the Towne
        of Ayreton in so much as the Mayor is not vested with authority or
        power to do anything official. The Mayor has, and I assume, still
        does work with the Seneschals and in doing that can represent those
        discussions and information and maybe even goals, but has no official
        authority.

        Do we want to the next Mayor to in some way have more or any official
        authority? That is a question I leave to everyone who is in the
        groups that comprise Ayreton to work out. Just remember, no matter
        what we decide it has to be well within the bounds of the rules of the
        SCA and the Middle Kingdom.

        Ian the Green
        Just to be clear - Former - Ayreton Towne Cryer


        --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, "Philippa of Otterbourne"
        <otterbourne@...> wrote:
        >
        > I think Master Philip brings up a valid point. In the past we've never
        > elected the Lord Mayor.
        > With the talk of a barony and now an election for Lord Mayor, it
        might be
        > more prudent to define said role before any election process.
        >
        > Is the Lord Mayor to remain a non-official figurehead of the area
        groups? Or
        > will the Lord Mayor become a non-offical figurehead of the new barony
        > (thereby excluding Ravenslake and Greyhope members from the selection
        > process and/or from serving as Lord Mayor or will we allow non-Baronial
        > groups to participate?)
        >
        > If the purpose of the Lord Mayor is to serve as the representative
        of the
        > area seneschals, shouldn't that be up to the seneschals to decide who it
        > will be? Would we need an election in this case? Furthermore, if
        this is
        > the Lord Mayor's purpose in a new Barony, isn't it redundant?
        Wouldn't the
        > canton seneschals be in communication with a baronial seneschal who then
        > would not need a mouthpiece? Wouldn't the Baron and Baroness be the
        > representatives of the area? As a barony would we need a Lord Mayor?
        >
        > The populace is being asked to elect a Lord Mayor for the first
        time, in a
        > time of potential dramatic change with little or no information on
        exactly
        > what the Lord Mayor will be responsible for. How are people
        expected to
        > apply and vote responsibly if they don't know what the office
        entails (and I
        > use the term office loosely when it is non-official in nature to begin
        > with).
        >
        > Humbly,
        >
        > Philippa of Otterbourne
        >
        >
        >
        > On 2/18/08, Craig <philipwhite@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > That is what I would have thought too…
        > >
        > > But I wonder if peoples' perceptions are changing since we've been
        > > more formally talking about a shell Barony.
        > >
        > > I've heard a comment or two about how the Town Mayor works as a
        > > representative of the five seneschals (implying the five seneschals
        > > that could possible be part of a shell Barony). I've also heard
        > > general comments about how the Mayor might work as a non-official
        > > figurehead as part of a Baronial transition.
        > >
        > > What do people think?
        > >
        > > Depending on how everyone feels, this could play a major factor on if
        > > someone wants to apply to be Mayor.
        > >
        > > Just some thoughts…
        > > ~Philip
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, AlexdeSet@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Greetings!
        > > >
        > > > Â Â Â Â In no particular order, Tree-Girt-Sea, Grey Gargoyles,
        > > Ravenslake, Rokkehealden, Vanished Wood, Foxvale. I have heard
        > > Greyhope added in from time to time. I think Ayreton is more of an
        > > attitude than a geographic location.
        > > >
        > > > Is mise le meas,
        > > >
        > > > Alexander de Seton
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: Craig <philipwhite@>
        > > > To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 7:20 am
        > > > Subject: [Ayreton] Ayreton Groups
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Greetings All,
        > > >
        > > > So I have what I think should be a simple question … but worth
        > > asking
        > > > with elections announced and Town Meetings upcoming.
        > > >
        > > > What groups currently comprise what we refer to as the "Town of
        > > > Ayreton"?
        > > >
        > > > Thanks!
        > > > ~Philip
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > ______________________________________________________________________
        > > __
        > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
        > > http://webmail.aol.com
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ~~~~~
        > >
        > > To view and add events to the calendar:
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/cal/
        > >
        > > To discontinue receiving discussion, but still receive
        announcements, go
        > > to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/join and change your
        subscription
        > > to "Special Notices". Activities coordinators, to get access to post
        > > Special Notices, send a request to <Ayreton-owner@yahoogroups.com>.
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Philippa
        >
      • David Roland
        I have heard Greyhope added in from time to time. - Alexander De Seton The Shire of Greyhope, a bit more than a year ago, clearly stated that it does not
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 18, 2008
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          "I have heard Greyhope added in from time to time."
          - Alexander De Seton

          The Shire of Greyhope, a bit more than a year ago, clearly stated that
          it does not wish to be a part of the Towne of Ayreton, but does wish
          to be a friend to the Towne of Ayreton. What their previous stance
          was, I do not know.

          Ian the Green
        • John Adams
          Well, I ve heard it said that the Lord Mayor of Ayreton is a schtick-y subject to discuss. :) Eh, Alexander? As for any kind of official role, that would be
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 18, 2008
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            Well, I've heard it said that the Lord Mayor of Ayreton is a schtick-y subject to discuss. :) Eh, Alexander?
             
            As for any kind of official role, that would be difficult to quantify, since both 'Ayreton' and the pending petition are presently recognized as being on the same plain of existance as 'Brigadoon'. That being the case, I'd say that expecting the 'office' to be anything more than it has been to date might be overly ambitious at this time.
             
            But that's just my two pence. Of course, your mileage may vary.
             
            -- Grimkirk
            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Craig <philipwhite@...>
            To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 11:59:41 AM
            Subject: [Ayreton] Re: Ayreton Groups

            That is what I would have thought too…

            But I wonder if peoples' perceptions are changing since we've been
            more formally talking about a shell Barony.

            I've heard a comment or two about how the Town Mayor works as a
            representative of the five seneschals (implying the five seneschals
            that could possible be part of a shell Barony). I've also heard
            general comments about how the Mayor might work as a non-official
            figurehead as part of a Baronial transition.

            What do people think?

            Depending on how everyone feels, this could play a major factor on if
            someone wants to apply to be Mayor.

            Just some thoughts…
            ~Philip

            --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups .com, AlexdeSet@.. . wrote:
            >
            >
            > Greetings!
            >
            > In no particular order, Tree-Girt-Sea, Grey Gargoyles,
            Ravenslake, Rokkehealden, Vanished Wood, Foxvale. I have heard
            Greyhope added in from time to time. I think Ayreton is more of an
            attitude than a geographic location.
            >
            > Is mise le meas,
            >
            > Alexander de Seton
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Craig <philipwhite@ ...>
            > To: Ayreton@yahoogroups .com
            > Sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 7:20 am
            > Subject: [Ayreton] Ayreton Groups
            >
            > Greetings All,
            >
            > So I have what I think should be a simple question … but worth
            asking
            > with elections announced and Town Meetings upcoming.
            >
            > What groups currently comprise what we refer to as the "Town of
            > Ayreton"?
            >
            > Thanks!
            > ~Philip




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          • auldefarte
            plain of existance? plane? ugh... . My 2AM plain-farte , er, brain farte. Whatever. That s what I get for trying to be coherant at this hour. Mea Culpa. --
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 19, 2008
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              'plain' of existance? plane? ugh... . My 2AM 'plain-farte', er, brain
              farte. Whatever. That's what I get for trying to be coherant at this
              hour. Mea Culpa.
              -- G

              --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, John Adams <auldefarte@...> wrote:
              >
              > Well, I've heard it said that the Lord Mayor of Ayreton is a
              schtick-y subject to discuss. :) Eh, Alexander?
              >
              > As for any kind of official role, that would be difficult to
              quantify, since both 'Ayreton' and the pending petition are presently
              recognized as being on the same plain of existance as 'Brigadoon'.
              That being the case, I'd say that expecting the 'office' to be
              anything more than it has been to date might be overly ambitious at
              this time.
              >
              > But that's just my two pence. Of course, your mileage may vary.
              >
              > -- Grimkirk
            • JC Ravage
              Yeah, I was wondering about that...isn t Brigadoon in the mountains? ... -- Hard it is to lift a full cup without spilling. --Gorice XII
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 19, 2008
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                Yeah, I was wondering about that...isn't Brigadoon in the mountains?

                On Feb 19, 2008 2:00 AM, auldefarte <auldefarte@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > 'plain' of existance? plane? ugh... . My 2AM 'plain-farte', er, brain
                > farte. Whatever. That's what I get for trying to be coherant at this
                > hour. Mea Culpa.
                > -- G
                >
                >
                > --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, John Adams <auldefarte@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Well, I've heard it said that the Lord Mayor of Ayreton is a
                > schtick-y subject to discuss. :) Eh, Alexander?
                > >
                > > As for any kind of official role, that would be difficult to
                > quantify, since both 'Ayreton' and the pending petition are presently
                > recognized as being on the same plain of existance as 'Brigadoon'.
                > That being the case, I'd say that expecting the 'office' to be
                > anything more than it has been to date might be overly ambitious at
                > this time.
                > >
                > > But that's just my two pence. Of course, your mileage may vary.
                > >
                > > -- Grimkirk
                >
                >



                --
                "Hard it is to lift a full cup without spilling."--Gorice XII
              • Dayle Harding
                Greetings from a former Mayor-- The question was asked what role the Mayor has. We HAVE been the figureheads, so to speak, and at times the person to start
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 19, 2008
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                  Greetings from a former Mayor--

                  The question was asked what role the Mayor has.  We HAVE been the figureheads, so to speak, and at times the person to start some form of discussion going.  However, I also think that each of us brought something a bit different to the role (and I use the term role as it is meant, more as a person playing a part, not BEING the part).  At the time of my term, one thing that I heard from various people both in and out of this region, was that our 6 groups didn't play well together.  This was patently not true in the global format.  We had been playing together in various forms wonderfully for awhile.  So, I really viewed MY role as that of pointing out to any and all how well we did play together.  Vocally.  Hopefully loudly.  What happened from that was the first Ayreton Carnivale.  And, in the planning of that Carnivale, the Towne Hall Meetings.  But please, don't think I'm taking credit for these events.  I was the one who ANNOUNCED (sort of...ok...I had Ian do it) that these were taking place.  What I really did was listen to what various people told me, and then dropped some big hints to others, and the ideas rolled on their own.  And maybe that's a good working definition of the Mayor.  (Alexander,  Eitenne, others, thoughts??)

                  As my understanding of where we are going is that there is not going to be an interim Baronial Seneschal, but rather the 5 seneschals in question fulfilling that role, I do see a continued need, at least in the short term, for a Lord/Lady Mayor.  Not to be the representative of the seneschals, but to work closely with them and the Towne Cryer to be more of a spokesperson (?).   At least, that's how I see it.  As Grimkirk states, your opinion may vary.  But hopefully it will help people in the stepping up/voting process.

                  (ohh...good schtick here.....vote early, vote often and all that.....)

                  Acelina

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: JC Ravage <ravagio@...>
                  To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:40:06 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Re: Ayreton Groups

                  Yeah, I was wondering about that...isn't Brigadoon in the mountains?

                  On Feb 19, 2008 2:00 AM, auldefarte <auldefarte@yahoo. com> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 'plain' of existance? plane? ugh... . My 2AM 'plain-farte' , er, brain
                  > farte. Whatever. That's what I get for trying to be coherant at this
                  > hour. Mea Culpa.
                  > -- G
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups .com, John Adams <auldefarte@ ...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Well, I've heard it said that the Lord Mayor of Ayreton is a
                  > schtick-y subject to discuss. :) Eh, Alexander?
                  > >
                  > > As for any kind of official role, that would be difficult to
                  > quantify, since both 'Ayreton' and the pending petition are presently
                  > recognized as being on the same plain of existance as 'Brigadoon'.
                  > That being the case, I'd say that expecting the 'office' to be
                  > anything more than it has been to date might be overly ambitious at
                  > this time.
                  > >
                  > > But that's just my two pence. Of course, your mileage may vary.
                  > >
                  > > -- Grimkirk
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  "Hard it is to lift a full cup without spilling."-- Gorice XII




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                • AlexdeSet@aol.com
                  It s actually kind of a state of mined. Ta, AdS ... From: JC Ravage To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 7:40 am Subject: Re:
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 19, 2008
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                    It's actually kind of a state of mined.
                    Ta,
                    AdS


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: JC Ravage <ravagio@...>
                    To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 7:40 am
                    Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Re: Ayreton Groups

                    Yeah, I was wondering about that...isn't Brigadoon in the mountains?

                    On Feb 19, 2008 2:00 AM, auldefarte <auldefarte@yahoo. com> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 'plain' of existance? plane? ugh... . My 2AM 'plain-farte' , er, brain
                    > farte. Whatever. That's what I get for trying to be coherant at this
                    > hour. Mea Culpa.
                    > -- G
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups .com, John Adams <auldefarte@ ...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Well, I've heard it said that the Lord Mayor of Ayreton is a
                    > schtick-y subject to discuss. :) Eh, Alexander?
                    > >
                    > > As for any kind of official role, that would be difficult to
                    > quantify, since both 'Ayreton' and the pending petition are presently
                    > recognized as being on the same plain of existance as 'Brigadoon'.
                    > That being the case, I'd say that expecting the 'office' to be
                    > anything more than it has been to date might be overly ambitious at
                    > this time.
                    > >
                    > > But that's just my two pence. Of course, your mileage may vary.
                    > >
                    > > -- Grimkirk
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    "Hard it is to lift a full cup without spilling."-- Gorice XII

                    More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
                  • JC Ravage
                    Oh. Well, that s a hole nother story then.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 19, 2008
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                      Oh. Well, that's a hole nother story then.

                      On Feb 19, 2008 10:47 PM, <AlexdeSet@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > It's actually kind of a state of mined.
                      > Ta,
                      > AdS
                      >
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