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Re: [Ayreton] Re: barony vs shell barony

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  • Christian Fournier
    Sorry to contradict you, Ian, but I think you ve got it wrong. Per Corpora (page 8 of http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf), Baronies are administrative groups,
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 1, 2008
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      Sorry to contradict you, Ian, but I think you've got it wrong.

      Per Corpora (page 8 of http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf), Baronies
      are administrative groups, which may (or might not) have other groups
      that report through them. That's it.


      Historically, the way it's tended to work is that one group gets (or
      starts out) big enough to be a Barony (25 people). As other groups
      begin to emerge, they are fostered in their early years by that
      bigger Baronial group (in similar fashion to how Foxvale has been
      fostered by Tree-Girt-Sea). Sometimes, those emergent groups, on
      being recognized as full-status, choose to remain part of the Barony
      they "grew up" in, in which case they become Cantons.

      So, sometimes a Barony will consist of a single group (in fact, this
      is currently true of every Barony in Illinois). Other times, a
      Barony may include Cantons, which report through the Barony
      (Sternfeld is one such: most people around Indianapolis are residents
      only of the Barony of Sternfeld, but those in Boone and Hendricks
      Counties are ALSO members of the Canton of Qal 'at Ja'far). There's
      nothing prohibiting any member of the Barony (including one who
      resides in a Canton thereof) from serving in any Baronial office
      (including that of Baron or Baroness), although it may be possible
      for specific Baronial charters to specify differently.


      More recently, it's been known to happen (both in the Midrealm and
      elsewhere) that several existing groups throw their lot in together,
      to form a Barony, in which no one group holds the same name as the
      Barony itself-- that is, every Canton has its own identify, and are
      co-equal partners in the Barony. This sort of collective has come to
      be known as a "shell Barony" (notably, NO official document that I
      could find, at the Kingdom nor Corporate level, uses this term). It
      is not definitively different in any way from any other Barony.


      So, for our purposes, the useful distinction is this: In choosing to
      formally collectivize the local groups, we could either advance ANY
      of those group to a Barony, and bring any of the other groups in as
      Cantons thereof, or we could create some new administrative unit, and
      make all of the groups Cantons of that. The latter case is what we
      call a "shell Barony", and it's what I personally believe makes most
      sense.

      Of course, it's also possible for any of the groups that has 30
      members and a full staff of officers to become a Barony, without any
      of the others coming along. But, as I said some months ago in a TGS
      meeting on the subject, "I think it's only worth Tree-Girt-Sea
      becoming a Barony, if the purpose is to bind us to our neighbors."

      Hope this helps!

      Christian
    • David Roland
      ... Thank you for helping me, and others, get this right and provide citation of authority as well as some background. Ian
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 1, 2008
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        --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, Christian Fournier <cf@...> wrote:
        >
        > Sorry to contradict you, Ian, but I think you've got it wrong.

        Thank you for helping me, and others, get this right and provide
        citation of authority as well as some background.

        Ian
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