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Re: barony vs shell barony

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  • David Roland
    First of all both are Baronies. The differentation is how it is put together. Shell barony is like a pie with slices in it. The cantons would be the slices.
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 1, 2008
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      First of all both are Baronies. The differentation is how it is put
      together.

      Shell barony is like a pie with slices in it. The cantons would be
      the slices. Each is individual unto itself, has its own qualities,
      and in this case its own canton officers. It would, along with all
      the other pieces of the pie (cantons) make up the barony. Something
      like how counties make up a state. The Barony would have its
      officers as well as a Baron and/or Baroness. Anyone from any group
      can be a Baronial Officer including Baron and/or Baroness.

      The other way of having a Barony, that I am aware of, is more like
      soviet era USSR. You have the main unit which makes up a Barony and
      then you have satelite units that make up Cantons seperate from the
      main barony but associated with it. It is my understanding that
      only those people inside the Barony group could be Baronial Officers
      but I may have that wrong.

      These descriptions may be inexact and certainly bow to better
      descriptors and way things are done.

      It is my (imperfect) understanding that further Baronies created
      will follow the shell barony model.

      Ian

      --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, ldyambr@... wrote:
      >
      > hello all,
      >
      > I am a bit confused and hope some one will clarify
      >
      > 1. What is the differance between a barony and a shell barony
      > 2 what effects exactly would a shell barony have on the ayreton
      area and on each shire, province canton etc.
      > 3. does a shell barony have a baron or baroness at its head? If
      so is there a differance in a shell barons powers than a baronies
      powers?
      >
      > Ambr Stormwatch
      >
    • Christian Fournier
      Sorry to contradict you, Ian, but I think you ve got it wrong. Per Corpora (page 8 of http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf), Baronies are administrative groups,
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 1, 2008
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        Sorry to contradict you, Ian, but I think you've got it wrong.

        Per Corpora (page 8 of http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf), Baronies
        are administrative groups, which may (or might not) have other groups
        that report through them. That's it.


        Historically, the way it's tended to work is that one group gets (or
        starts out) big enough to be a Barony (25 people). As other groups
        begin to emerge, they are fostered in their early years by that
        bigger Baronial group (in similar fashion to how Foxvale has been
        fostered by Tree-Girt-Sea). Sometimes, those emergent groups, on
        being recognized as full-status, choose to remain part of the Barony
        they "grew up" in, in which case they become Cantons.

        So, sometimes a Barony will consist of a single group (in fact, this
        is currently true of every Barony in Illinois). Other times, a
        Barony may include Cantons, which report through the Barony
        (Sternfeld is one such: most people around Indianapolis are residents
        only of the Barony of Sternfeld, but those in Boone and Hendricks
        Counties are ALSO members of the Canton of Qal 'at Ja'far). There's
        nothing prohibiting any member of the Barony (including one who
        resides in a Canton thereof) from serving in any Baronial office
        (including that of Baron or Baroness), although it may be possible
        for specific Baronial charters to specify differently.


        More recently, it's been known to happen (both in the Midrealm and
        elsewhere) that several existing groups throw their lot in together,
        to form a Barony, in which no one group holds the same name as the
        Barony itself-- that is, every Canton has its own identify, and are
        co-equal partners in the Barony. This sort of collective has come to
        be known as a "shell Barony" (notably, NO official document that I
        could find, at the Kingdom nor Corporate level, uses this term). It
        is not definitively different in any way from any other Barony.


        So, for our purposes, the useful distinction is this: In choosing to
        formally collectivize the local groups, we could either advance ANY
        of those group to a Barony, and bring any of the other groups in as
        Cantons thereof, or we could create some new administrative unit, and
        make all of the groups Cantons of that. The latter case is what we
        call a "shell Barony", and it's what I personally believe makes most
        sense.

        Of course, it's also possible for any of the groups that has 30
        members and a full staff of officers to become a Barony, without any
        of the others coming along. But, as I said some months ago in a TGS
        meeting on the subject, "I think it's only worth Tree-Girt-Sea
        becoming a Barony, if the purpose is to bind us to our neighbors."

        Hope this helps!

        Christian
      • David Roland
        ... Thank you for helping me, and others, get this right and provide citation of authority as well as some background. Ian
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 1, 2008
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          --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, Christian Fournier <cf@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sorry to contradict you, Ian, but I think you've got it wrong.

          Thank you for helping me, and others, get this right and provide
          citation of authority as well as some background.

          Ian
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