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barony vs shell barony

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  • ldyambr@comcast.net
    hello all, I am a bit confused and hope some one will clarify 1. What is the differance between a barony and a shell barony 2 what effects exactly would a
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 1, 2008
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       hello all,
       
       I am a bit confused and hope some one  will  clarify
       
       1. What is the differance between a barony and a shell barony
      2 what  effects exactly would a shell barony have on the ayreton area and on each shire, province canton etc.
      3. does a shell barony have a baron or baroness at its head?  If so is there a differance in a shell barons powers than a baronies powers?
       
      Ambr Stormwatch
    • David Roland
      First of all both are Baronies. The differentation is how it is put together. Shell barony is like a pie with slices in it. The cantons would be the slices.
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 1, 2008
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        First of all both are Baronies. The differentation is how it is put
        together.

        Shell barony is like a pie with slices in it. The cantons would be
        the slices. Each is individual unto itself, has its own qualities,
        and in this case its own canton officers. It would, along with all
        the other pieces of the pie (cantons) make up the barony. Something
        like how counties make up a state. The Barony would have its
        officers as well as a Baron and/or Baroness. Anyone from any group
        can be a Baronial Officer including Baron and/or Baroness.

        The other way of having a Barony, that I am aware of, is more like
        soviet era USSR. You have the main unit which makes up a Barony and
        then you have satelite units that make up Cantons seperate from the
        main barony but associated with it. It is my understanding that
        only those people inside the Barony group could be Baronial Officers
        but I may have that wrong.

        These descriptions may be inexact and certainly bow to better
        descriptors and way things are done.

        It is my (imperfect) understanding that further Baronies created
        will follow the shell barony model.

        Ian

        --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, ldyambr@... wrote:
        >
        > hello all,
        >
        > I am a bit confused and hope some one will clarify
        >
        > 1. What is the differance between a barony and a shell barony
        > 2 what effects exactly would a shell barony have on the ayreton
        area and on each shire, province canton etc.
        > 3. does a shell barony have a baron or baroness at its head? If
        so is there a differance in a shell barons powers than a baronies
        powers?
        >
        > Ambr Stormwatch
        >
      • Christian Fournier
        Sorry to contradict you, Ian, but I think you ve got it wrong. Per Corpora (page 8 of http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf), Baronies are administrative groups,
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 1, 2008
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          Sorry to contradict you, Ian, but I think you've got it wrong.

          Per Corpora (page 8 of http://www.sca.org/docs/govdocs.pdf), Baronies
          are administrative groups, which may (or might not) have other groups
          that report through them. That's it.


          Historically, the way it's tended to work is that one group gets (or
          starts out) big enough to be a Barony (25 people). As other groups
          begin to emerge, they are fostered in their early years by that
          bigger Baronial group (in similar fashion to how Foxvale has been
          fostered by Tree-Girt-Sea). Sometimes, those emergent groups, on
          being recognized as full-status, choose to remain part of the Barony
          they "grew up" in, in which case they become Cantons.

          So, sometimes a Barony will consist of a single group (in fact, this
          is currently true of every Barony in Illinois). Other times, a
          Barony may include Cantons, which report through the Barony
          (Sternfeld is one such: most people around Indianapolis are residents
          only of the Barony of Sternfeld, but those in Boone and Hendricks
          Counties are ALSO members of the Canton of Qal 'at Ja'far). There's
          nothing prohibiting any member of the Barony (including one who
          resides in a Canton thereof) from serving in any Baronial office
          (including that of Baron or Baroness), although it may be possible
          for specific Baronial charters to specify differently.


          More recently, it's been known to happen (both in the Midrealm and
          elsewhere) that several existing groups throw their lot in together,
          to form a Barony, in which no one group holds the same name as the
          Barony itself-- that is, every Canton has its own identify, and are
          co-equal partners in the Barony. This sort of collective has come to
          be known as a "shell Barony" (notably, NO official document that I
          could find, at the Kingdom nor Corporate level, uses this term). It
          is not definitively different in any way from any other Barony.


          So, for our purposes, the useful distinction is this: In choosing to
          formally collectivize the local groups, we could either advance ANY
          of those group to a Barony, and bring any of the other groups in as
          Cantons thereof, or we could create some new administrative unit, and
          make all of the groups Cantons of that. The latter case is what we
          call a "shell Barony", and it's what I personally believe makes most
          sense.

          Of course, it's also possible for any of the groups that has 30
          members and a full staff of officers to become a Barony, without any
          of the others coming along. But, as I said some months ago in a TGS
          meeting on the subject, "I think it's only worth Tree-Girt-Sea
          becoming a Barony, if the purpose is to bind us to our neighbors."

          Hope this helps!

          Christian
        • David Roland
          ... Thank you for helping me, and others, get this right and provide citation of authority as well as some background. Ian
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 1, 2008
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            --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, Christian Fournier <cf@...> wrote:
            >
            > Sorry to contradict you, Ian, but I think you've got it wrong.

            Thank you for helping me, and others, get this right and provide
            citation of authority as well as some background.

            Ian
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