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Re: [Ayreton] Semantics - how mundane

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  • Earik MacSkellie
    The driving force behind pc-ing up the SCA is the lack of new members and growth. This may be a hobby for 99.9% of us, but the SCA is a corporation. Like other
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 22, 2007
      The driving force behind pc-ing up the SCA is the lack of new members and growth. This may be a hobby for 99.9% of us, but the SCA is a corporation. Like other corporations, it wants to see growth through new members. It would be a shame to lose somebody because they took offense to terminology we take for granted. There is a culture difference we need to overcome to bring new people in.

      The context from the chatelaine's meeting (and this is second hand, since I wasn't in attendance) is for media contact. Use what terminology you want, but remember the media is a great recruiting tool. That being said, the media will also skew their stories to fit their agenda. Don't give them ammo to slam us.

      On 8/22/07, John Railing <malkinius@...> wrote:

      Greetings all.....

      Political Correctness is not period. It won't be invented for more
      than 350 years after the SCA cut off date. Hurting the feelings of
      and calling other groups various insulting names is perfectly period.
      It extends from before SCA period to well afterwards. Therefore call
      whoever you want whatever you want. However, in good period fashion,
      be prepared to defend your words with your body. <grins>

      I, for one, will call the mundanes mundane, as I have been doing for 30 years.

      Now...back to your mundane world and 'modern' forms of communication.

      Be well all....

      John Malkin aMalkin

      --
      John Railing aka Malkin
      1041 Nerge Rd., Apt. 104 * Elk Grove Village, IL 60007 * 812-320-1447




      --
      Ld. Earik MacSkellie
      Squire to Sir Galem Lionel Ostwestly
      Marshal, Incipient Shire of Foxvale

      http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/michael.labny%40gmail.com/public/basic
      http://earikmacskellie.blogspot.com/
    • Folo Watkins
      Some years ago, the Powers-That-Be declared the term mundane anathema. we all saw how well that worked, didn t we? Apparently, they want to do away with
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 22, 2007
        Some years ago, the Powers-That-Be declared the term "mundane" anathema. we
        all saw how well that worked, didn't we? Apparently, they want to do away
        with "newbie" as well. And perhaps other words that are contentious as
        well. But "mundane" and "newbie" are, I think, not going to roll over so
        easily. they're too useful. The term "mundane" may be misused, but any term
        that is pushed can be infused with the same negative perception ("Oh, he's
        just a modern..." Oh dear, we mustn't use modern because it can be
        derogatory), and newbie is a term used in many many contexts besides the
        SCA and, in fact, has been often used by the newbie himself to describe
        himself. I woner if a couple decades from now, there will be another
        movement to remove these derogatory terms?

        AFAIC, they would be better served with an educational program that teaches
        fp;l not to use the terms in an insulting. derogatory manner. But that
        makes too much sense and might be too hard. get rid of them altogether, and
        life will be perfect!

        At Pennsic this year, a countess asked me why I never wrote for anything
        official. I don't like being told what I can and cannot write, I say. "Oh,
        we never do that anymore," she said, while in the next breath noted that
        newbie and mundane was banned in official publications. Um...

        Cheers, Folo (who has his own dislikes: autocrat and, to a less extent,
        troll, but not because they insult people)
      • Drew
        As I recall, they tried to do away with Autocrat , Feastocrat , Troll , etc. That s also had very mixed success. -- Qui Tacet Consentit
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 22, 2007
          As I recall, they tried to do away with "Autocrat", "Feastocrat", "Troll",
          etc. That's also had very mixed success.

          --
          Qui Tacet Consentit

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:Ayreton@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Folo Watkins
          > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:54 PM
          > To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Semantics - how mundane
          >
          > Some years ago, the Powers-That-Be declared the term
          > "mundane" anathema. we all saw how well that worked, didn't
          > we? Apparently, they want to do away with "newbie" as well.
          > And perhaps other words that are contentious as well. But
          > "mundane" and "newbie" are, I think, not going to roll over
          > so easily. they're too useful. The term "mundane" may be
          > misused, but any term that is pushed can be infused with the
          > same negative perception ("Oh, he's just a modern..." Oh
          > dear, we mustn't use modern because it can be derogatory),
          > and newbie is a term used in many many contexts besides the
          > SCA and, in fact, has been often used by the newbie himself
          > to describe himself. I woner if a couple decades from now,
          > there will be another movement to remove these derogatory terms?
          >
          > AFAIC, they would be better served with an educational
          > program that teaches fp;l not to use the terms in an
          > insulting. derogatory manner. But that makes too much sense
          > and might be too hard. get rid of them altogether, and life
          > will be perfect!
          >
          > At Pennsic this year, a countess asked me why I never wrote
          > for anything official. I don't like being told what I can and
          > cannot write, I say. "Oh, we never do that anymore," she
          > said, while in the next breath noted that newbie and mundane
          > was banned in official publications. Um...
          >
          > Cheers, Folo (who has his own dislikes: autocrat and, to a
          > less extent, troll, but not because they insult people)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Folo Watkins
          ... No. *I* tried to get rid of the crat abominations, but like the Christians in eleventh century Scandinavia, some heathens have backslid. I remain confident
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 22, 2007
            >As I recall, they tried to do away with "Autocrat", "Feastocrat", "Troll",
            >etc. That's also had very mixed success.

            No. *I* tried to get rid of the crat abominations, but like the Christians
            in eleventh century Scandinavia, some heathens have backslid. I remain
            confident that everyone in the SCA will come to their senses and subscribe
            to the One True Faith in time :) But then I tried to substitute term that
            described the same thing but, unfortunately just weren't as cute. "Mundane"
            isn't cute, but nothing else conveys the same meaning!

            Personally, I prefer the term "farb," but its meaning is not the same as
            "mundane."

            Cheers, Folo
          • John Railing
            Greetings Folo.... ... Actually....there is another word that says the same thing, but we really don t want to use that term in this context. It would cause
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 22, 2007
              Greetings Folo....

              > >As I recall, they tried to do away with "Autocrat", "Feastocrat", "Troll",
              >>etc. That's also had very mixed success.
              >
              >No. *I* tried to get rid of the crat abominations, but like the Christians
              >in eleventh century Scandinavia, some heathens have backslid. I remain
              >confident that everyone in the SCA will come to their senses and subscribe
              >to the One True Faith in time :) But then I tried to substitute term that
              >described the same thing but, unfortunately just weren't as cute. "Mundane"
              >isn't cute, but nothing else conveys the same meaning!

              Actually....there is another word that says the same thing, but we
              really don't want to use that term in this context. It would cause
              too many problems because of its associations with other groups.

              >Personally, I prefer the term "farb," but its meaning is not the same as
              >"mundane."

              I thought "farb" only referred to faux garb? I.e., looks sorta period
              but isn't.

              >Cheers, Folo

              Be well......

              John Malkin aMalkin

              --
              John Railing aka Malkin
              1041 Nerge Rd., Apt. 104 * Elk Grove Village, IL 60007 * 812-320-1447
            • jeffnaggie@aol.com
              Well said! Hillary of Langeforde ... From: Earik MacSkellie To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 6:28 pm Subject: Re:
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 23, 2007
                Well said!
                 
                Hillary of Langeforde


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Earik MacSkellie <erickmaxskelly@...>
                To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 6:28 pm
                Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Semantics - how mundane

                The driving force behind pc-ing up the SCA is the lack of new members and growth. This may be a hobby for 99.9% of us, but the SCA is a corporation. Like other corporations, it wants to see growth through new members. It would be a shame to lose somebody because they took offense to terminology we take for granted. There is a culture difference we need to overcome to bring new people in.

                The context from the chatelaine's meeting (and this is second hand, since I wasn't in attendance) is for media contact. Use what terminology you want, but remember the media is a great recruiting tool. That being said, the media will also skew their stories to fit their agenda. Don't give them ammo to slam us.

                On 8/22/07, John Railing <malkinius@...> wrote:
                Greetings all.....

                Political Correctness is not period. It won't be invented for more
                than 350 years after the SCA cut off date. Hurting the feelings of
                and calling other groups various insulting names is perfectly period.
                It extends from before SCA period to well afterwards. Therefore call
                whoever you want whatever you want. However, in good period fashion,
                be prepared to defend your words with your body. <grins>

                I, for one, will call the mundanes mundane, as I have been doing for 30 years.

                Now...back to your mundane world and 'modern' forms of communication.

                Be well all....

                John Malkin aMalkin

                --
                John Railing aka Malkin
                1041 Nerge Rd., Apt. 104 * Elk Grove Village, IL 60007 * 812-320-1447



                --
                Ld. Earik MacSkellie
                Squire to Sir Galem Lionel Ostwestly
                Marshal, Incipient Shire of Foxvale

                http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/michael.labny%40gmail.com/public/basic
                http://earikmacskellie.blogspot.com/

                Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
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