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Semantics - how mundane

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  • Wendy Pastrick
    I suppose you could compare it to calling people muggles , but it s become such a part of our SCA culture, that we often do not realize that using the word
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 21 3:03 PM
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      I suppose you could compare it to calling people
      "muggles", but it's become such a part of our SCA
      culture, that we often do not realize that using the
      word "mundane" can actually be taken in a derrogatory
      way. Really, have you ever heard of something
      'mundane' being fun? .... exactly....!

      Apparently, at the Chatelaine's meeting at Pennsic, it
      was requested that we attempt to substitute the word
      "modern" anytime we would have used "mundane".

      Just don't go with "mudblood"...thanks :)

      Obviously, if you are newer to the SCA and you think
      "freaking the mundanes" is a cool thing, by all means,
      please continue! At least it makes us visible.

      Thanks for your attention - here's hoping your day in
      the modern world does not interfere much with your
      sca-dian life. Go Bears! Go Cubs! Go Sox!

      Smiles,
      Jale
      Your local neighborhood Chatelaine
    • Metylda
      Forgive me for saying this, but the SCA is a hobby. People usually take part in a hobby because they have an interest, find it enjoyable, and because they like
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 22 10:36 AM
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        Forgive me for saying this, but the SCA is a hobby.
        People usually take part in a hobby because they have
        an interest, find it enjoyable, and because they like
        it. They do this because something about this 'hobby'
        fascinates and excites something in the person. They
        take part in a hobby because they *do not* find it
        boring.

        Hence, the 'real world' can be seen as Mundane. Now,
        we don't just refer to non-SCA people as Mundane, we
        refer to our mundane jobs, our mundane names, we
        change into mundanes, and we simply use the term
        mundane to denote non-SCA things. We do not *just*
        call non-SCA people 'Mundanes', we refer to everything
        that is non-SCA with a 'Mundane' adjective. If people
        take that in a derogatory term, well, then that's
        their problem.

        In a way, 'Modern' isn't any better. As we are
        reenactors, we obviously thing something about history
        is superior to the modern world. We romance an age and
        time that many consider to have disappeared in the
        Modern world. So, Modern can be seen as less
        chivalrous, less honorable, less desirable anyway.

        My two cents,

        Metylda


        --- Wendy Pastrick <trybl_dance@...> wrote:

        > I suppose you could compare it to calling people
        > "muggles", but it's become such a part of our SCA
        > culture, that we often do not realize that using the
        > word "mundane" can actually be taken in a
        > derrogatory
        > way. Really, have you ever heard of something
        > 'mundane' being fun? .... exactly....!
        >
        > Apparently, at the Chatelaine's meeting at Pennsic,
        > it
        > was requested that we attempt to substitute the word
        > "modern" anytime we would have used "mundane".
        >
        > Just don't go with "mudblood"...thanks :)
        >
        > Obviously, if you are newer to the SCA and you think
        > "freaking the mundanes" is a cool thing, by all
        > means,
        > please continue! At least it makes us visible.
        >
        > Thanks for your attention - here's hoping your day
        > in
        > the modern world does not interfere much with your
        > sca-dian life. Go Bears! Go Cubs! Go Sox!
        >
        > Smiles,
        > Jale
        > Your local neighborhood Chatelaine


        There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast.

        *****

        Me þæt wyrd gewæf



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      • John Railing
        Greetings all..... Political Correctness is not period. It won t be invented for more than 350 years after the SCA cut off date. Hurting the feelings of and
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 22 11:18 AM
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          Greetings all.....

          Political Correctness is not period. It won't be invented for more
          than 350 years after the SCA cut off date. Hurting the feelings of
          and calling other groups various insulting names is perfectly period.
          It extends from before SCA period to well afterwards. Therefore call
          whoever you want whatever you want. However, in good period fashion,
          be prepared to defend your words with your body. <grins>

          I, for one, will call the mundanes mundane, as I have been doing for 30 years.

          Now...back to your mundane world and 'modern' forms of communication.

          Be well all....

          John Malkin aMalkin

          --
          John Railing aka Malkin
          1041 Nerge Rd., Apt. 104 * Elk Grove Village, IL 60007 * 812-320-1447
        • Earik MacSkellie
          The driving force behind pc-ing up the SCA is the lack of new members and growth. This may be a hobby for 99.9% of us, but the SCA is a corporation. Like other
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 22 4:28 PM
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            The driving force behind pc-ing up the SCA is the lack of new members and growth. This may be a hobby for 99.9% of us, but the SCA is a corporation. Like other corporations, it wants to see growth through new members. It would be a shame to lose somebody because they took offense to terminology we take for granted. There is a culture difference we need to overcome to bring new people in.

            The context from the chatelaine's meeting (and this is second hand, since I wasn't in attendance) is for media contact. Use what terminology you want, but remember the media is a great recruiting tool. That being said, the media will also skew their stories to fit their agenda. Don't give them ammo to slam us.

            On 8/22/07, John Railing <malkinius@...> wrote:

            Greetings all.....

            Political Correctness is not period. It won't be invented for more
            than 350 years after the SCA cut off date. Hurting the feelings of
            and calling other groups various insulting names is perfectly period.
            It extends from before SCA period to well afterwards. Therefore call
            whoever you want whatever you want. However, in good period fashion,
            be prepared to defend your words with your body. <grins>

            I, for one, will call the mundanes mundane, as I have been doing for 30 years.

            Now...back to your mundane world and 'modern' forms of communication.

            Be well all....

            John Malkin aMalkin

            --
            John Railing aka Malkin
            1041 Nerge Rd., Apt. 104 * Elk Grove Village, IL 60007 * 812-320-1447




            --
            Ld. Earik MacSkellie
            Squire to Sir Galem Lionel Ostwestly
            Marshal, Incipient Shire of Foxvale

            http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/michael.labny%40gmail.com/public/basic
            http://earikmacskellie.blogspot.com/
          • Folo Watkins
            Some years ago, the Powers-That-Be declared the term mundane anathema. we all saw how well that worked, didn t we? Apparently, they want to do away with
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 22 4:53 PM
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              Some years ago, the Powers-That-Be declared the term "mundane" anathema. we
              all saw how well that worked, didn't we? Apparently, they want to do away
              with "newbie" as well. And perhaps other words that are contentious as
              well. But "mundane" and "newbie" are, I think, not going to roll over so
              easily. they're too useful. The term "mundane" may be misused, but any term
              that is pushed can be infused with the same negative perception ("Oh, he's
              just a modern..." Oh dear, we mustn't use modern because it can be
              derogatory), and newbie is a term used in many many contexts besides the
              SCA and, in fact, has been often used by the newbie himself to describe
              himself. I woner if a couple decades from now, there will be another
              movement to remove these derogatory terms?

              AFAIC, they would be better served with an educational program that teaches
              fp;l not to use the terms in an insulting. derogatory manner. But that
              makes too much sense and might be too hard. get rid of them altogether, and
              life will be perfect!

              At Pennsic this year, a countess asked me why I never wrote for anything
              official. I don't like being told what I can and cannot write, I say. "Oh,
              we never do that anymore," she said, while in the next breath noted that
              newbie and mundane was banned in official publications. Um...

              Cheers, Folo (who has his own dislikes: autocrat and, to a less extent,
              troll, but not because they insult people)
            • Drew
              As I recall, they tried to do away with Autocrat , Feastocrat , Troll , etc. That s also had very mixed success. -- Qui Tacet Consentit
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 22 5:33 PM
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                As I recall, they tried to do away with "Autocrat", "Feastocrat", "Troll",
                etc. That's also had very mixed success.

                --
                Qui Tacet Consentit

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:Ayreton@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Folo Watkins
                > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:54 PM
                > To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Semantics - how mundane
                >
                > Some years ago, the Powers-That-Be declared the term
                > "mundane" anathema. we all saw how well that worked, didn't
                > we? Apparently, they want to do away with "newbie" as well.
                > And perhaps other words that are contentious as well. But
                > "mundane" and "newbie" are, I think, not going to roll over
                > so easily. they're too useful. The term "mundane" may be
                > misused, but any term that is pushed can be infused with the
                > same negative perception ("Oh, he's just a modern..." Oh
                > dear, we mustn't use modern because it can be derogatory),
                > and newbie is a term used in many many contexts besides the
                > SCA and, in fact, has been often used by the newbie himself
                > to describe himself. I woner if a couple decades from now,
                > there will be another movement to remove these derogatory terms?
                >
                > AFAIC, they would be better served with an educational
                > program that teaches fp;l not to use the terms in an
                > insulting. derogatory manner. But that makes too much sense
                > and might be too hard. get rid of them altogether, and life
                > will be perfect!
                >
                > At Pennsic this year, a countess asked me why I never wrote
                > for anything official. I don't like being told what I can and
                > cannot write, I say. "Oh, we never do that anymore," she
                > said, while in the next breath noted that newbie and mundane
                > was banned in official publications. Um...
                >
                > Cheers, Folo (who has his own dislikes: autocrat and, to a
                > less extent, troll, but not because they insult people)
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Folo Watkins
                ... No. *I* tried to get rid of the crat abominations, but like the Christians in eleventh century Scandinavia, some heathens have backslid. I remain confident
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 22 5:53 PM
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                  >As I recall, they tried to do away with "Autocrat", "Feastocrat", "Troll",
                  >etc. That's also had very mixed success.

                  No. *I* tried to get rid of the crat abominations, but like the Christians
                  in eleventh century Scandinavia, some heathens have backslid. I remain
                  confident that everyone in the SCA will come to their senses and subscribe
                  to the One True Faith in time :) But then I tried to substitute term that
                  described the same thing but, unfortunately just weren't as cute. "Mundane"
                  isn't cute, but nothing else conveys the same meaning!

                  Personally, I prefer the term "farb," but its meaning is not the same as
                  "mundane."

                  Cheers, Folo
                • John Railing
                  Greetings Folo.... ... Actually....there is another word that says the same thing, but we really don t want to use that term in this context. It would cause
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 22 10:32 PM
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                    Greetings Folo....

                    > >As I recall, they tried to do away with "Autocrat", "Feastocrat", "Troll",
                    >>etc. That's also had very mixed success.
                    >
                    >No. *I* tried to get rid of the crat abominations, but like the Christians
                    >in eleventh century Scandinavia, some heathens have backslid. I remain
                    >confident that everyone in the SCA will come to their senses and subscribe
                    >to the One True Faith in time :) But then I tried to substitute term that
                    >described the same thing but, unfortunately just weren't as cute. "Mundane"
                    >isn't cute, but nothing else conveys the same meaning!

                    Actually....there is another word that says the same thing, but we
                    really don't want to use that term in this context. It would cause
                    too many problems because of its associations with other groups.

                    >Personally, I prefer the term "farb," but its meaning is not the same as
                    >"mundane."

                    I thought "farb" only referred to faux garb? I.e., looks sorta period
                    but isn't.

                    >Cheers, Folo

                    Be well......

                    John Malkin aMalkin

                    --
                    John Railing aka Malkin
                    1041 Nerge Rd., Apt. 104 * Elk Grove Village, IL 60007 * 812-320-1447
                  • jeffnaggie@aol.com
                    Well said! Hillary of Langeforde ... From: Earik MacSkellie To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 6:28 pm Subject: Re:
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 23 2:43 PM
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                      Well said!
                       
                      Hillary of Langeforde


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Earik MacSkellie <erickmaxskelly@...>
                      To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 6:28 pm
                      Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Semantics - how mundane

                      The driving force behind pc-ing up the SCA is the lack of new members and growth. This may be a hobby for 99.9% of us, but the SCA is a corporation. Like other corporations, it wants to see growth through new members. It would be a shame to lose somebody because they took offense to terminology we take for granted. There is a culture difference we need to overcome to bring new people in.

                      The context from the chatelaine's meeting (and this is second hand, since I wasn't in attendance) is for media contact. Use what terminology you want, but remember the media is a great recruiting tool. That being said, the media will also skew their stories to fit their agenda. Don't give them ammo to slam us.

                      On 8/22/07, John Railing <malkinius@...> wrote:
                      Greetings all.....

                      Political Correctness is not period. It won't be invented for more
                      than 350 years after the SCA cut off date. Hurting the feelings of
                      and calling other groups various insulting names is perfectly period.
                      It extends from before SCA period to well afterwards. Therefore call
                      whoever you want whatever you want. However, in good period fashion,
                      be prepared to defend your words with your body. <grins>

                      I, for one, will call the mundanes mundane, as I have been doing for 30 years.

                      Now...back to your mundane world and 'modern' forms of communication.

                      Be well all....

                      John Malkin aMalkin

                      --
                      John Railing aka Malkin
                      1041 Nerge Rd., Apt. 104 * Elk Grove Village, IL 60007 * 812-320-1447



                      --
                      Ld. Earik MacSkellie
                      Squire to Sir Galem Lionel Ostwestly
                      Marshal, Incipient Shire of Foxvale

                      http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/michael.labny%40gmail.com/public/basic
                      http://earikmacskellie.blogspot.com/

                      Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
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