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Asking the Question

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  • Sarafina Sinclair
    Hi Everyone, This is a lengthy post, but I ask that you read and consider carefully. I hope that this will add to the discussion in a productive way. From what
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 28, 2007
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      Hi Everyone,

      This is a lengthy post, but I ask that you read and consider
      carefully. I hope that this will add to the discussion in a
      productive way.

      From what I can tell, a barony (in whatever form) will happen if a
      majority of us think that the pros outweigh the cons and the
      opposite is also true.

      Some of us are pro-barony. Some of us are anti-barony. Some of us
      are undecided or ambivalent. Are we to the stage where we can count
      those opinions and see where the chips falls? It is unlikely that
      those with hard and fast beliefs about this issue will be swayed. As
      in any popular election (for lack of a better term), the question is
      generally decided by the swing voters.

      I am in favor of Officially asking the question. Let the seneschals
      contact the appropriate kingdom officer and find out how we conduct
      the poll. Let the process be transparent and easy to understand
      where we are at all stages. I think much of the misgivings comes
      from a lack of information of how it all works.

      Is it possible to concisely list the pros and cons for everyone to
      see and make a decision around? Then, we can ask the question and
      proceed from there. If a majority is in favor of barony then let's
      start the process. If a majority is not in favor then let's continue
      as we have and ask the question again in a couple of years - or
      whatever the appropriate time is.

      Here are some pros and cons that I've heard come up in these
      meetings. This list is by no means exhaustive. Please correct or add
      to them as is appropriate.

      Pros:
      Crown Representative Figure Heads to serve as a focal point
      Awards on a local level and regency courts
      Unity of fighter practices and A&S activities
      Large pool of volunteers for baronial events and projects
      Increase of renown of the group around the kingdom

      Cons:
      Contention surrounding the selection of figureheads and baronial
      officers
      Change in current groups statuses / Loss of individual group identity
      Physical distance between groups
      Loss of individuals to the baronial level from the shire/canton level
      Factionalization (is that a word?) within the group(s)

      These are the things I keep hearing in my part of town. Let's
      continue to discuss and debate in a constructive manner. Talk about
      this in your groups and voice your choice when the time comes.

      Thank you for listening.

      Sarafina :D
    • Emmiken die Waeyer
      Thank you, Sarafina :) I do question though the following in the list of pros : Unity of fighter practices and A&S activities Large pool of volunteers for
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 28, 2007
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        Thank you, Sarafina :)
         
        I do question though the following in the list of "pros":
        "Unity of fighter practices and A&S activities
        Large pool of volunteers for baronial events and projects "

        Aren't we already unifying fighter practices and volunteer pools at events and for projects in our own non-baronial entity?
         
        Again, it's just my own opinion, but I think we have the tools currently  without going Barony.
         
        I promise to be quiet now.
         
        m
         
        On 6/28/07, Sarafina Sinclair <Sarafina.Sinclair@...> wrote:

        Hi Everyone,

        This is a lengthy post, but I ask that you read and consider
        carefully. I hope that this will add to the discussion in a
        productive way.

        From what I can tell, a barony (in whatever form) will happen if a
        majority of us think that the pros outweigh the cons and the
        opposite is also true.

        Some of us are pro-barony. Some of us are anti-barony. Some of us
        are undecided or ambivalent. Are we to the stage where we can count
        those opinions and see where the chips falls? It is unlikely that
        those with hard and fast beliefs about this issue will be swayed. As
        in any popular election (for lack of a better term), the question is
        generally decided by the swing voters.

        I am in favor of Officially asking the question. Let the seneschals
        contact the appropriate kingdom officer and find out how we conduct
        the poll. Let the process be transparent and easy to understand
        where we are at all stages. I think much of the misgivings comes
        from a lack of information of how it all works.

        Is it possible to concisely list the pros and cons for everyone to
        see and make a decision around? Then, we can ask the question and
        proceed from there. If a majority is in favor of barony then let's
        start the process. If a majority is not in favor then let's continue
        as we have and ask the question again in a couple of years - or
        whatever the appropriate time is.

        Here are some pros and cons that I've heard come up in these
        meetings. This list is by no means exhaustive. Please correct or add
        to them as is appropriate.

        Pros:
        Crown Representative Figure Heads to serve as a focal point
        Awards on a local level and regency courts
        Unity of fighter practices and A&S activities
        Large pool of volunteers for baronial events and projects
        Increase of renown of the group around the kingdom

        Cons:
        Contention surrounding the selection of figureheads and baronial
        officers
        Change in current groups statuses / Loss of individual group identity
        Physical distance between groups
        Loss of individuals to the baronial level from the shire/canton level
        Factionalization (is that a word?) within the group(s)

        These are the things I keep hearing in my part of town. Let's
        continue to discuss and debate in a constructive manner. Talk about
        this in your groups and voice your choice when the time comes.

        Thank you for listening.

        Sarafina :D




        --
        It is better to light one small candle than to curse the darkness.
      • Sarafina Sinclair
        My good lady, My point in listing the pros and cons is to get all the opinions I d heard in one place. I just joined the list today and I ve been trying to
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 28, 2007
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          My good lady,

          My point in listing the pros and cons is to get all the opinions I'd
          heard in one place. I just joined the list today and I've been
          trying to catch up on all the postings. I hope that I was succinct.

          It is not my opinon that we have to have a barony to have the
          benefits of a barony, I am just trying to get all the arguments in
          one place. Please feel free to add or subtract as necessary.

          In Service,

          Sarafina :D

          --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, "Emmiken die Waeyer" <emmiken@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Thank you, Sarafina :)
          >
          > I do question though the following in the list of "pros":
          > "Unity of fighter practices and A&S activities
          > Large pool of volunteers for baronial events and projects "
          >
          > Aren't we already unifying fighter practices and volunteer pools
          at events
          > and for projects in our own non-baronial entity?
          >
          > Again, it's just my own opinion, but I think we have the tools
          currently
          > without going Barony.
          >
          > I promise to be quiet now.
          >
          > m
          >
        • rdpierce@pobox.com
          ... I m thinking that this polling process can be jumpstarted somewhat. Yahoo Groups allows for the creation of polls. I ve used them in other groups I ve run.
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 28, 2007
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            "Sarafina Sinclair" said:

            >I am in favor of Officially asking the question. Let the seneschals
            >contact the appropriate kingdom officer and find out how we conduct
            >the poll. Let the process be transparent and easy to understand
            >where we are at all stages. I think much of the misgivings comes
            >from a lack of information of how it all works.

            I'm thinking that this polling process can be jumpstarted somewhat.
            Yahoo Groups allows for the creation of polls. I've used them in
            other groups I've run. It would be trivial for a group owner/moderator
            to set up a poll of:

            Should the Ayreton groups form a Barony?

            * Give me Barony or give me Death!
            * I'd really like a Barony.
            * I'm leaning slightly in favor of Barony.
            * Either way is fine.
            * I'm leaning slightly against a Barony.
            * I really don't want a Barony.
            * Absolutely not!
            * I need more information to make a decision.

            Now such a poll has absolutely no official standing. It is
            biased to those who are on the Internet, are on this list, and don't
            mind clicking web buttons. But it would give an approximation of the
            state of the populace on this issue. This isn't to say that an official
            poll isn't biased with sampling errors, either, of different varieties.

            In service,
            Ryan Murdoch Mackenzie
          • Tedesco da Venezia
            Sorry, when we created the Ayreton group, we disabled polls for two reasons: 1. If you want to allow subscribers to hide email addresses and allow non-yahoo
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 28, 2007
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              Sorry, when we created the Ayreton group, we disabled polls for two reasons:  1. If you want to allow subscribers to hide email addresses and allow non-yahoo members to subscribe, you have to disable polls.  And 2. Unless the question is simply "yes" or "no"-- and even then-- the moderators usually do not create enough answers for all the possible opinions.  Oh and 3. most of the time, polls usually don't get any more responses than an open question post.  (#1 was the only reason we HAD to, but in my experience, the never get used.) 


              On 6/28/07, rdpierce@... <rdpierce@...> wrote:


              "Sarafina Sinclair" said:

              >I am in favor of Officially asking the question. Let the seneschals
              >contact the appropriate kingdom officer and find out how we conduct
              >the poll. Let the process be transparent and easy to understand
              >where we are at all stages. I think much of the misgivings comes
              >from a lack of information of how it all works.

              I'm thinking that this polling process can be jumpstarted somewhat.
              Yahoo Groups allows for the creation of polls. I've used them in
              other groups I've run. It would be trivial for a group owner/moderator
              to set up a poll of:

              Should the Ayreton groups form a Barony?

              * Give me Barony or give me Death!
              * I'd really like a Barony.
              * I'm leaning slightly in favor of Barony.
              * Either way is fine.
              * I'm leaning slightly against a Barony.
              * I really don't want a Barony.
              * Absolutely not!
              * I need more information to make a decision.

              Now such a poll has absolutely no official standing. It is
              biased to those who are on the Internet, are on this list, and don't
              mind clicking web buttons. But it would give an approximation of the
              state of the populace on this issue. This isn't to say that an official
              poll isn't biased with sampling errors, either, of different varieties.

              In service,
              Ryan Murdoch Mackenzie


            • AlexdeSet@aol.com
              Greetings! ???? I respectfully suggest that those who are interested go to the MK Seneschal page and check this link Baronial Advancement and Transitions
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 28, 2007
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                Greetings!
                     I respectfully suggest that those who are interested go to the MK Seneschal page and check this link "Baronial Advancement and Transitions (Updated: Jan 2006)". Questions may be answered.
                Is mise le meas,
                Alexander de Seton




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              • Kenwrec Wulfe
                Greetings everyone, I have heard the word Barony floating about pretty much since I joined the area almost 6 years ago. The pros and cons of such an idea have
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 29, 2007
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                  Greetings everyone,

                  I have heard the word Barony floating about pretty much since I
                  joined the area almost 6 years ago.

                  The pros and cons of such an idea have been discussed ad nauseum and
                  I am sure everyone is familiar with them, so I would rehash.

                  I think that having an Ayreton Barony is a fabulous idea, overall.
                  To alleviate the cons, to some degree at least, when taking the
                  steps forward to do this, I think we should consider implementing a
                  few things in the process of selection and election. (obviously this
                  will be if the choice to go Barony is made.)
                  Some ideas:
                  - Use and nomination process where each nominee must be seconded and
                  thirded(?) to be considered in the running.
                  - Independent election for each office
                  - Have a Baron and Baroness who are from different groups within
                  Ayreton (A Baron from Vanished Wood and Baroness from Tree-Girt, for
                  example)

                  I think these might he alleviate a number of the issues that might
                  arise, be they actual or perceived issues.

                  Just my two bits. Take them for what they are worth.

                  Kenwrec Wulfe
                • Tedesco da Venezia
                  Kenwrec-- don t forget, the baron and baroness are representatives of the crown, and are therefore CHOSEN BY THE CROWN. Now that doesn t mean they don t
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 29, 2007
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                    Kenwrec-- don't forget, the baron and baroness are representatives of the crown, and are therefore CHOSEN BY THE CROWN.  Now that doesn't mean they don't listen to the populace's choices, and from what I've seen/heard the appointed baron and baroness are often the populace's top pick-- but ideally you give the crown a number of nominees and they will choose from them.



                    On 6/29/07, Kenwrec Wulfe <kenwrecwulfe@...> wrote:

                    Greetings everyone,

                    I have heard the word Barony floating about pretty much since I
                    joined the area almost 6 years ago.

                    The pros and cons of such an idea have been discussed ad nauseum and
                    I am sure everyone is familiar with them, so I would rehash.

                    I think that having an Ayreton Barony is a fabulous idea, overall.
                    To alleviate the cons, to some degree at least, when taking the
                    steps forward to do this, I think we should consider implementing a
                    few things in the process of selection and election. (obviously this
                    will be if the choice to go Barony is made.)
                    Some ideas:
                    - Use and nomination process where each nominee must be seconded and
                    thirded(?) to be considered in the running.
                    - Independent election for each office
                    - Have a Baron and Baroness who are from different groups within
                    Ayreton (A Baron from Vanished Wood and Baroness from Tree-Girt, for
                    example)

                    I think these might he alleviate a number of the issues that might
                    arise, be they actual or perceived issues.

                    Just my two bits. Take them for what they are worth.

                    Kenwrec Wulfe


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