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1985Re: Shell without Ravenslake (was...)

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  • Galen of Bristol
    Feb 4, 2008
      Having been at the Ravenslake meeting at which it was agreed that we
      would not join the Ayreton shell barony, I would just like to point
      out, in case it hasn't been made clear, that Ravenslake never intended
      to make or imply any statement of opposition to the remaining Ayreton
      groups forming a barony.

      We have no wish to veto, prevent, impede, undermine or discourage the
      advancement of the other five groups.

      Sometimes, growth doesn't happen quite the way you might want or
      expect. That's just life.

      - Galen of Bristol
      another guy in Ravenslake

      --- In Ayreton@yahoogroups.com, Teleri <alta_gioiosa@...> wrote:
      > The fact that the people Ravenslake chose to remain independent of
      their own will, and have every right to do so is not at issue. My
      concern is the affect that has on the logic of forming a shell barony
      out of the remaining five groups in the local area.
      > Maybe my perspective is different because I have been happily
      thinking of myself as a citizen of Ayreton (meaning all 6 groups in
      the greater Chicago area) for the last several years. With the
      efforts spent by so many people to promote the unity between groups,
      it has been wonderful to be able to participate in the activities and
      events of all groups, without worrying about what geographic location
      it is in, or which group it "belongs" to.
      > I was not especially in favor of the Ayreton entity of all six
      groups advancing to barony status, but I at least understood the logic
      of the folks proposing it. It would have maintained the unity of the
      area that we had all been working toward. The newly proposed shell
      consisting of only part of the greater Chicago area groups has no such
      obvious logic to it.
      > During the initial advancement discussions, many argued against
      individual groups advancing in status because of the barriers to unity
      that such structures could impose. The newly proposed area-wide
      organization will have to deal with these issues of division. I am
      now looking at the prospect of ending up quite close to the boundary
      of the Barony of Five and the Whatever of Ravenslake, which is quite
      unappealing. While, of course, no wall will go up, and we won't stop
      talking to each other, my experience with the Midrealm is that people
      take Baronial boundaries much more seriously. During the polling
      process, I already had people question my right to express an opinion
      outside my geographic zip code. While the majority of people in the
      area did not support that type of exclusion, such attitudes only
      become stronger under a baronial organization structure.
      > Regardless of what happens to the name Ayreton, how do we plan to
      maintain the unity of the greater Chicago entity, or is that no longer
      considered important? My experience with the advancement process is
      that takes so much effort and resources from the group involved, there
      is little to spare for other matters for a long time. If we want to
      maintain the larger area cohesion, will we now need a Governor instead
      of a Mayor to represent the larger entity comprising the Shell Barony
      and Ravenslake? Are things like this mailing list and the Carnival
      event going to continue to represent the larger group or become the
      purview of just the Shell Barony? Will we now need a new separate
      email list and new baronial events to promote the unity of the five
      groups without Ravenslake? How does it make sense to try and form
      this shell of five, if we have been stressing for so long the cohesion
      of the entire set of six groups?
      > Yours in Service,
      > Teleri
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: "AlexdeSet@..." <AlexdeSet@...>
      > To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2008 8:00:18 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Re: Actual wording of the letter of intent
      > Greetings!
      > Speaking as a member of the Shire of Ravenslake, present when
      the voting took place, I will say the Shire is excited about having a
      Barony, shell or otherwise, as a neighbor. We were not excluded, we
      decided ourselves to opt out and choose another path.
      > In the Land of Milk and Honey (tm), Fair Caid, there are
      baronies everywhere, many adjacent to each other. This is far from a
      bad thing-it is actively a good thing. If it happens here, it will
      also be a good thing.
      > While I think it is good that others are concerned that
      Ravenslake has been "left out", please understand that we are still
      here, still interacting, sharing, and helping. We have chosen a
      slightly different path, and forsee no problem between shire and
      Barony, or Barony and Barony.
      > Is mise le meas,
      > Alexander de Seton,
      > Some Guy From Ravenslake
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Teleri <alta_gioiosa@ yahoo.com>
      > To: Ayreton@yahoogroups .com
      > Sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:17 pm
      > Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Re: Actual wording of the letter of intent
      > Ian said>>
      > I, today do not feel that Ravenslake has "left the fold" nor do I
      > think their choice to look into the potential of becoming a barony on
      > their own in anyway affects the five groups that have decided to look
      > into forming a shell barony together.
      > ***
      > The initial proposal submitted for consideration in the poll was for
      the 6 groups of the region to form a shell barony, and this has now
      changed to only 5 of those groups doing so and one remaining
      independent. I think this change to the proposal as has a large affect
      on the decision to continue forward with the process. It will have a
      major affect on the regional structure of this area, which will impact
      all 6 local groups and their members.
      > This issue was in fact brought up and discussed during the initial
      meetings before the poll. The general response was that such a
      possibility was terribly unlikely, and that we would deal with it
      later if that slight possibility became a reality.
      > Well, here we are, unlikely as it seemed at the time. Are we going
      to in fact deal with it, or try to sweep it under the rug?
      > I think the inclusion of only 5 of the proposed 6 groups in the
      shell barony cancels out many of the suggested advantages of the
      initial proposal, and brings into play a number of additional
      disadvantages. There was a strong opinion that one of the major
      advantages of the shell barony format was to form, as the letter of
      intent indicates, a coherent structure for regional unity. Well, that
      will no longer be the case. The new proposed structure will
      institutionalize the connections between some of those groups and
      exclude other groups.
      > Of course, people are always free to ignore such boundaries to a
      certain extent, just as some of us still go to events in Northshield,
      now that it has become it's own kingdom. However, you cannot deny that
      it changes the relationships between groups when such structural
      boundaries are put in place. When it comes to such things as baronial
      events, baronial awards, baronial championships, baronial mailing
      lists, etc., all of which were proposed as advantages of the shell
      barony, some groups and individuals in the region will be able to
      participate and some will not.
      > I think these changes to the initial scope of the proposed regional
      structure need to be taken seriously, not just brushed aside.
      > Teleri
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