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Re: [Autism-Mercury] Natural Chelators

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  • Moria Merriweather
    ... Dear Monica, Please bear with me, I feel like I have to go slow tonight. Regarding the sulfur rich foods, some toxic kids need more and some toxic kids
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 25, 2001
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      >My son has a high level of antimony in addition to other toxic
      >metals. I have an HMO with a pediatrician that will not authorize
      >chelation. Unless I rob a bank, there is no way I could afford
      >chelation. What can I do naturally to chelate my son? Someone told
      >me that I could give him sulfer rich food such as broccoli,
      >asparagus, cabbage, garlic and brussel sprouts. My son tested
      >allergic to most of those items. Are there any others? I thought I
      >heard before that pork and eggs are also. What about herbs? Any
      >ideas how I could get these metals out without a presciption would be
      >helpful.
      >
      >Monica

      Dear Monica,

      Please bear with me, I feel like I have to go slow tonight.

      Regarding the sulfur rich foods, some toxic kids need more and
      some toxic kids need less. The test to find out which your kid
      needs is called a plasma cysteine test. Costs about $60 if
      you do JUST this test. Please read the posts in the section
      about sulfur, cysteine, NAC, etc here:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/ANDY_INDEX

      My guess is that if your kid is allergic to the foods you listed
      he probly won't like the other sulfur rich foods either, but I'm
      (of course) only guessing. There are others. Eggs and
      garlic. And others I'm not remembering. If you kid DID need
      more sulfur (which I do not assume is the case) you could also
      give him NAC (which is a supplement). This is not recommended,
      since you do not know, and since he is reactive to sulfur foods.

      BTW, Andy also says that sulfur will not result in the body
      detoxing mercury--- it just helps a lot in other ways. I don't
      know myself. But I have read of (both) kids who do better on
      sulfur foods/supplements and kids who do way worse.

      Okay, now, let's discuss this question you asked -- the one at
      the very end-- can you somehow do chelation w/o an Rx. Yes.
      Very much. Please note I am neither recommending nor warning
      you against this. My answer is simply that, at a practical
      level, it is very much possible to get the supplies and so
      forth needed. I'll paste my "standard info" on how to buy
      DMSA without an Rx at the end of this (after my name). Please
      note that ALA, also used for chelation, is available at any
      large health food store, it is sold as a supplement. Your
      mission, should you accept it, is to search out information
      on ALA and DMSA and hone in on these until you understand
      the advantages and risks of each and are ready to decide
      what you want to do next. ALA and DMSA are the most common
      chelators used by people on this list. ALA is cheaper than
      DMSA. The brand I buy costs about $18 or so for 60 capsules.

      Okay, well, now that I've answered that, with your permission
      I'd like to skip the other questions about herbs and other
      natural methods. If you still want an essay on these topics
      after you have had time to digest this current essay, let me
      know and I'll hopefully come up with something.

      I hope that this information will help you to avoid a life
      of crime, and, perhaps help your son avoid a life impaired
      by heavy metals.

      Oh, I can also tell you how to get a hair test (for metals)
      without a doctor. It costs $80. Just ask, or search in
      the archive for "DLS".

      best,
      Moria
      ==================================================

      DMSA generally requires a prescription. You can buy DMSA without a
      prescription from the sources listed below.
      There may be advantages or disadvantages for you to buy it by prescription
      verses over the counter. If you have
      insurance that may cover it, you will want to get it with a prescription.
      Over the counter it is cheaper, and you don't have
      to have a doctor.

      Vitamin Research Products sells DMSA without a prescription. 100 mg
      capsules: $40 for 45 capsules, plus about
      $3 for shipping. They do not sell DMSA in doses smaller than 100 mg,
      so, if you need a smaller amount you'll
      have to divide it yourself. Other Ingredients: Microcrystalline
      cellulose (a natural plant fiber) and gelatin. Contains
      no added sugar, starch, salt, wheat, gluten, corn, coloring, dairy
      products, flavoring or preservatives.

      Vitamin Research Products, Inc., Carson City, NV 89701 USA
      (800) 877-2447 (Mon - Thurs 6 AM to 6 PM pacific time; Fri 6 AM to 5 PM)
      http://www.vrpcentral.net

      The Falls Pharmacy sells Captomer (DMSA made by Thorne Labs) without a
      prescription. A bottle of 45
      capsules is $45. To order (or for more info) send email to Brock
      Nyberg, Pharmacist at:
      getit@...

      Thorne Research makes DMSA called "Captomer". They will not sell this
      to just ANYone, but they will sell it to
      any licensed health care practitioner of any sort (e.g. nurse,
      chiropractor, optometrist, podiatrist, pharmacist,
      clinical nutritionist, homeopath, acupuncturist, etc.), who could then
      re-sell it to you. (Note that the Falls
      Pharmacy, listed above, sells the Thorne brand.) Their suggested
      RETAIL price is $43.10 for 45 capsules, 100
      mg-- I don't have the wholesale prices.

      Thorne Research: (208)263-1337, located in Idaho.

      Kirkman's will sell DMSA without a prescription, but they do require
      verification that the user is under a doctor's
      care. This verification can be phone, fax or written note from the
      doctor.
    • AndyCutler@aol.com
      ALA is the essential agent and it is pretty inexpensive. DMSA is a LOT cheaper OTC than by Rx, and you don t absolutely have to use it if you can t afford it.
      Message 2 of 29 , Oct 25, 2001
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        ALA is the essential agent and it is pretty inexpensive. DMSA is a
        LOT cheaper OTC than by Rx, and you don't absolutely have to use it if
        you can't afford it.

        Remember to afford some antioxidant vitamins during chelation (and
        give the water soluble stuff like C 4 times a day) or he will get
        really sick from the stress of chelating. With them it is no big deal
        if done properly.

        Andy

        --- In Autism-Mercury@y..., "Neena Garza" <ngarza@w...> wrote:
        > You don't have to go through a doctor if you can't afford chelation.
        You
        > can order DMSA and ALA through Vitamin Research Products without a
        > prescription.
        > Phone - 800-877-2447.
        >
        > Neena
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: mturner@c... <mturner@c...>
        > To: Autism-Mercury@y... <Autism-Mercury@y...>
        > Date: Thursday, October 25, 2001 7:09 PM
        > Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Natural Chelators
        >
        >
        > >My son has a high level of antimony in addition to other toxic
        > >metals. I have an HMO with a pediatrician that will not authorize
        > >chelation. Unless I rob a bank, there is no way I could afford
        > >chelation. What can I do naturally to chelate my son? Someone
        told
        > >me that I could give him sulfer rich food such as broccoli,
        > >asparagus, cabbage, garlic and brussel sprouts. My son tested
        > >allergic to most of those items. Are there any others? I thought
        I
        > >heard before that pork and eggs are also. What about herbs? Any
        > >ideas how I could get these metals out without a presciption would
        be
        > >helpful.
        > >
        > >Monica
        > >
        > >
        > >=======================================================
        > >Statements posted on this list are for information only,
        > >and should NOT be taken as medical advice. If you need
        > >medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
        > >authorized to give medical advice: doctors.
        > >
        > >Post message: Autism-Mercury@y...
        > >Subscribe: Autism-Mercury-subscribe@y...
        > >Unsubscribe: Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@y...
        > >List owner: Autism-Mercury-owner@y...
        > >Shortcut URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury
        > >Answers to common questions:
        >
        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/Mercury-Autism%20F
        AQ
        > >
        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Leirs B. Pagaspas
        Has anyone used this kinds of Natural Chelators? PCA RX or NDF? Which one is better?If anyone has used any other Natural Chelators that they can recommend?
        Message 3 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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          Has anyone used this kinds of Natural Chelators? PCA RX or NDF? Which one is better?If anyone has used any other Natural Chelators that they can recommend?

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        • veldanda swapna
          Hi Can I hae some information on Natural Chelators. ARe they risk free to try. My Son s Mercury test has come as normal. Is it worth to gie a try again?
          Message 4 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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            Hi
            Can I hae some information on Natural Chelators. ARe they risk free to try. My Son's Mercury test has come as normal. Is it worth to gie a try again?
            Thanks
            Swapna

            "Leirs B. Pagaspas" <leirapagaspas@...> wrote:

            Has anyone used this kinds of Natural Chelators? PCA RX or NDF? Which one is better?If anyone has used any other Natural Chelators that they can recommend?

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            =======================================================
            Statements posted on this list are for information only,
            and should NOT be taken as medical advice. If you need
            medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
            authorized to give medical advice: doctors.

            Post message: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
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          • danasview
            ... Last I checked, those are based on ALA. I chelated my kids with ALA, you can buy it at your local health food store. ... From the personal stories of
            Message 5 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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              --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Leirs B. Pagaspas"
              <leirapagaspas@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Has anyone used this kinds of Natural Chelators? PCA RX or NDF?


              Last I checked, those are based on ALA. I chelated my kids with ALA,
              you can buy it at your local health food store.


              >>Which one is better?


              From the personal stories of others that I have read, PCA is better
              than NDF.

              Dana
            • lindajaytee
              NDF is based on chlorella, cilantro, and microbial cell walls. It is dangerous because it has the potential to redistribute the mercury and cause serious harm.
              Message 6 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                NDF is based on chlorella, cilantro, and microbial cell walls.
                It is dangerous because it has the potential to redistribute the
                mercury and cause serious harm.
                I know because it harmed me as well as a close friend.
                Linda


                > >
                > > Has anyone used this kinds of Natural Chelators? PCA RX or NDF?
                >
                >
                > Last I checked, those are based on ALA. I chelated my kids with ALA,
                > you can buy it at your local health food store.
                >
                >
                > >>Which one is better?
                >
                >
                > From the personal stories of others that I have read, PCA is better
                > than NDF.
                >
                > Dana
              • TK
                TK--- IMO, oral ALA is the only natural chelator that is safe when used on an appropriate protocol [Andy s]. The other coctions you mention are not safe and
                Message 7 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                  TK--- IMO, oral ALA is the only natural chelator that is safe when used
                  on an appropriate protocol [Andy's]. The other coctions you mention
                  are not safe and can make things much worse, they have been discussed
                  many times here and this is available in the archives and Andy index.

                  --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Leirs B. Pagaspas"
                  <leirapagaspas@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Has anyone used this kinds of Natural Chelators? PCA RX or NDF? Which
                  one is better?If anyone has used any other Natural Chelators that they
                  can recommend?
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • debbiel3560
                  It s just amazing to me how every chelator has such positives and negatives. We have been using metal-free because it s been recommended to me by three
                  Message 8 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                    It's just amazing to me how every chelator has such positives and
                    negatives. We have been using metal-free because it's been
                    recommended to me by three different physicians. One an MD one a DO
                    who is a DAN doctor, and a chriopracter. They state that all three
                    of them pretty much do the same thing, but they all said that the
                    bond in metal free (I can't remember why) was stronger so there was
                    less chance of it breaking free and being redistributed in the
                    body. I remember calling metal-free at the time and speaking to
                    someone, who confirmed this as well, but I can't remember the
                    distinguishing ingredient. When I find it I'll post.

                    Deb


                    --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "lindajaytee"
                    <lindajaytee@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > NDF is based on chlorella, cilantro, and microbial cell walls.
                    > It is dangerous because it has the potential to redistribute the
                    > mercury and cause serious harm.
                    > I know because it harmed me as well as a close friend.
                    > Linda
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    > > > Has anyone used this kinds of Natural Chelators? PCA RX or NDF?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Last I checked, those are based on ALA. I chelated my kids with
                    ALA,
                    > > you can buy it at your local health food store.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >>Which one is better?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From the personal stories of others that I have read, PCA is
                    better
                    > > than NDF.
                    > >
                    > > Dana
                  • Mark Sircus Ac., OMD
                    ALA is the only natural chelator that is safe when used on an appropriate protocol [Andy s]. This is something of course we would only hear on this list. Come
                    Message 9 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                      ALA is the only natural chelator that is safe when used
                      on an appropriate protocol [Andy's].

                      This is something of course we would only hear on this list. Come on TK, the
                      ONLY safe natural chelator? I have been reading more and more how some
                      people have yeast problems with the ALA and I doubt if that is ONLY a
                      figment of their imaginations. Of course it is safe for you to say this here
                      but I doubt it would be safe to say it around the entire autism community.

                      Certainly I do not want to start all over again and comment on your
                      statement here about appropriate protocols since I know what you think
                      already about this. That would be tiring for everyone.

                      Mark Sircus Ac., OMD
                      Director International Medical Veritas Association and
                      The International Detoxification and Chelation Clinic
                      http://www.imva.info
                      http://www.worldpsychology.net
                      +55-83-252-2195
                      www.skype.com ID: marksircus
                    • Anne
                      Mark, What other chelators would you recommend? Thanks Anne ... on TK, the ... some ... a ... this here ... community. ... think
                      Message 10 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                        Mark,
                        What other chelators would you recommend?
                        Thanks
                        Anne

                        --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Sircus Ac., OMD"
                        <director@i...> wrote:
                        > ALA is the only natural chelator that is safe when used
                        > on an appropriate protocol [Andy's].
                        >
                        > This is something of course we would only hear on this list. Come
                        on TK, the
                        > ONLY safe natural chelator? I have been reading more and more how
                        some
                        > people have yeast problems with the ALA and I doubt if that is ONLY
                        a
                        > figment of their imaginations. Of course it is safe for you to say
                        this here
                        > but I doubt it would be safe to say it around the entire autism
                        community.
                        >
                        > Certainly I do not want to start all over again and comment on your
                        > statement here about appropriate protocols since I know what you
                        think
                        > already about this. That would be tiring for everyone.
                        >
                        > Mark Sircus Ac., OMD
                        > Director International Medical Veritas Association and
                        > The International Detoxification and Chelation Clinic
                        > http://www.imva.info
                        > http://www.worldpsychology.net
                        > +55-83-252-2195
                        > www.skype.com ID: marksircus
                      • Rebecca Cochran
                        Not a dr here, but don t believe anybody has ever suffered serious organ damage from yeast, you know, hence TK s comments are valid. Rebecca ... From: Mark
                        Message 11 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                          Not a dr here, but don't believe anybody has ever suffered serious organ damage from yeast, you know, hence TK's comments are valid.

                          Rebecca
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Mark Sircus Ac., OMD
                          To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 2:10 PM
                          Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Natural Chelators


                          ALA is the only natural chelator that is safe when used
                          on an appropriate protocol [Andy's].

                          This is something of course we would only hear on this list. Come on TK, the
                          ONLY safe natural chelator? I have been reading more and more how some
                          people have yeast problems with the ALA and I doubt if that is ONLY a
                          figment of their imaginations. Of course it is safe for you to say this here
                          but I doubt it would be safe to say it around the entire autism community.

                          Certainly I do not want to start all over again and comment on your
                          statement here about appropriate protocols since I know what you think
                          already about this. That would be tiring for everyone.

                          Mark Sircus Ac., OMD
                          Director International Medical Veritas Association and
                          The International Detoxification and Chelation Clinic
                          http://www.imva.info
                          http://www.worldpsychology.net
                          +55-83-252-2195
                          www.skype.com ID: marksircus





                          =======================================================
                          Statements posted on this list are for information only,
                          and should NOT be taken as medical advice. If you need
                          medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
                          authorized to give medical advice: doctors.

                          Post message: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Mum231ASD@aol.com
                          Mark - Have you foudn anybody yet who was moving metals out , with ANYTHING and didn;t get yeast??? I don t think so. Moving metls = yeast, score 1 for ALA :)
                          Message 12 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                            Mark - Have you foudn anybody yet who was moving metals out , with ANYTHING
                            and didn;t get yeast??? I don't think so. Moving metls = yeast, score 1 for
                            ALA :)
                            MAndi in UK

                            This is something of course we would only hear on this list. Come on TK, the
                            ONLY safe natural chelator? I have been reading more and more how some
                            people have yeast problems with the ALA and I doubt if that is ONLY a
                            figment of their imaginations. Of course it is safe for you to say this here
                            but I doubt it would be safe to say it around the entire autism community.





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Rabbitbrain@earthlink.net
                            I have no testing that showed the Metal Free actually works or not. I just have to say that when I tried it I felt extra good on it. I had to stop because it
                            Message 13 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                              I have no testing that showed the Metal Free actually works or
                              not. I just have to say that when I tried it I felt extra good on it.
                              I had to stop because it also boosted my estrogen levels and
                              my periods got awful sick. So now I avoid it. I don't like the
                              cost of the product though but it is convenient to take.

                              Liz D.


                              > [Original Message]
                              > From: debbiel3560 <debbiel3560@...>
                              > To: <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Date: 4/25/2005 11:16:41 AM
                              > Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Natural Chelators
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > It's just amazing to me how every chelator has such positives and
                              > negatives. We have been using metal-free because it's been
                              > recommended to me by three different physicians. One an MD one a DO
                              > who is a DAN doctor, and a chriopracter. They state that all three
                              > of them pretty much do the same thing, but they all said that the
                              > bond in metal free (I can't remember why) was stronger so there was
                              > less chance of it breaking free and being redistributed in the
                              > body. I remember calling metal-free at the time and speaking to
                              > someone, who confirmed this as well, but I can't remember the
                              > distinguishing ingredient. When I find it I'll post.
                              >
                              > Deb
                              >
                            • elveeraridenour
                              A question- when chelating with ALA only what could be done to prevent yeast overgrowth? Should probiotics be one of the many supplement that need to be taked
                              Message 14 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                                A question- when chelating with ALA only what could be done to
                                prevent yeast overgrowth? Should probiotics be one of the many
                                supplement that need to be taked while chelating with ALA? I'm
                                thinking of starting chelating my almost 4 year old using ALA only,
                                so what dosage should i use? He is 34lbs. Thank you. Elveera




                                --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Mum231ASD@a... wrote:
                                > Mark - Have you foudn anybody yet who was moving metals out , with
                                ANYTHING
                                > and didn;t get yeast??? I don't think so. Moving metls = yeast,
                                score 1 for
                                > ALA :)
                                > MAndi in UK
                                >
                                > This is something of course we would only hear on this list. Come
                                on TK, the
                                > ONLY safe natural chelator? I have been reading more and more how
                                some
                                > people have yeast problems with the ALA and I doubt if that is
                                ONLY a
                                > figment of their imaginations. Of course it is safe for you to
                                say this here
                                > but I doubt it would be safe to say it around the entire autism
                                community.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Kerbob
                                We used Metal Free for six months. Our son got remarkably worse i.e. unhappy, very aggressive, short fuse, scratching people, over-all miserable. We could
                                Message 15 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                                  We used Metal Free for six months. Our son got remarkably worse i.e. unhappy, very aggressive, short fuse, scratching people, over-all miserable. We could accept this in exchange for mercury removal. However, no mercury registered in any of the fecal metals tests run.

                                  Metal Free is not a chelator so therefore don't expect it to chelate.

                                  We started DMSA/ALA on the Cutler protocol last May. For us this was the most important decision we've had to make, and we are glad we did.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Rabbitbrain@...
                                  To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:57 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Natural Chelators


                                  I have no testing that showed the Metal Free actually works or
                                  not. I just have to say that when I tried it I felt extra good on it.
                                  I had to stop because it also boosted my estrogen levels and
                                  my periods got awful sick. So now I avoid it. I don't like the
                                  cost of the product though but it is convenient to take.

                                  Liz D.


                                  > [Original Message]
                                  > From: debbiel3560 <debbiel3560@...>
                                  > To: <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Date: 4/25/2005 11:16:41 AM
                                  > Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Natural Chelators
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > It's just amazing to me how every chelator has such positives and
                                  > negatives. We have been using metal-free because it's been
                                  > recommended to me by three different physicians. One an MD one a DO
                                  > who is a DAN doctor, and a chriopracter. They state that all three
                                  > of them pretty much do the same thing, but they all said that the
                                  > bond in metal free (I can't remember why) was stronger so there was
                                  > less chance of it breaking free and being redistributed in the
                                  > body. I remember calling metal-free at the time and speaking to
                                  > someone, who confirmed this as well, but I can't remember the
                                  > distinguishing ingredient. When I find it I'll post.
                                  >
                                  > Deb
                                  >



                                  =======================================================
                                  Statements posted on this list are for information only,
                                  and should NOT be taken as medical advice. If you need
                                  medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
                                  authorized to give medical advice: doctors.

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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Mum231ASD@aol.com
                                  Hi I think yeast is inevitable when starting chelation. You can do probiotics, they are good for anybody, some use OTC yeats killers as routine on rounds, some
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                                    Hi
                                    I think yeast is inevitable when starting chelation. You can do probiotics,
                                    they are good for anybody, some use OTC yeats killers as routine on rounds,
                                    some only of they see yeast flare up.

                                    Info here on Danas site

                                    _http://www.danasview.net/yeast.htm_ (http://www.danasview.net/yeast.htm)


                                    I like Candex as a long term -preventor - not soemthing the yeast can become
                                    resistant too. Needs to be given on empty stomach, I give mine in the night
                                    doses along with the ALA

                                    _http://www.iherb.com/candex2.html_ (http://www.iherb.com/candex2.html)

                                    HTH & goodluck with the chelating :)
                                    Mandi in UK

                                    A question- when chelating with ALA only what could be done to
                                    prevent yeast overgrowth? Should probiotics be one of the many
                                    supplement that need to be taked while chelating with ALA? I'm
                                    thinking of starting chelating my almost 4 year old using ALA only,
                                    so what dosage should i use? He is 34lbs. Thank you. Elveera





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • steve_rotherham
                                    yeast problems don t make ALA unsafe. they make it problematic But no chelator is 100% safe. Yeast isn t the real danger, redistribution is. So TK s key words
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Apr 25, 2005
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                                      yeast problems don't make ALA unsafe. they make it problematic

                                      But no chelator is 100% safe. Yeast isn't the real danger,
                                      redistribution is. So TK's key words were "appropriate protocol"
                                      and "natural chelator" - DMPS, DMSA and EDTA not being natural
                                      chelators.

                                      there has been some discussion of cilantro on this list, but the
                                      only advocate of this treatment who had any experience with it
                                      agreed it could be dangerous if used inappropriately. Unfortunately
                                      he has not provided an appropriate protocol, and we have no patient
                                      reports of good results (one listmate thought it was possible
                                      cilantro had helped her, but she wasn't sure, and she was using it
                                      in a way that Dr Alex said could be harmful)

                                      Steve



                                      --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Sircus Ac., OMD"
                                      <director@i...> wrote:
                                      > ALA is the only natural chelator that is safe when used
                                      > on an appropriate protocol [Andy's].
                                      >
                                      > This is something of course we would only hear on this list. Come
                                      on TK, the
                                      > ONLY safe natural chelator? I have been reading more and more how
                                      some
                                      > people have yeast problems with the ALA and I doubt if that is
                                      ONLY a
                                      > figment of their imaginations. Of course it is safe for you to say
                                      this here
                                      > but I doubt it would be safe to say it around the entire autism
                                      community.
                                      >
                                      > Certainly I do not want to start all over again and comment on your
                                      > statement here about appropriate protocols since I know what you
                                      think
                                      > already about this. That would be tiring for everyone.
                                      >
                                      > Mark Sircus Ac., OMD
                                      > Director International Medical Veritas Association and
                                      > The International Detoxification and Chelation Clinic
                                      > http://www.imva.info
                                      > http://www.worldpsychology.net
                                      > +55-83-252-2195
                                      > www.skype.com ID: marksircus
                                    • Dagmar
                                      To me the main thing is to avoid anything sugary or refined. (We do ALA only and our yeast problems have not been too difficult. Maybe a bit of luck as well).
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Apr 26, 2005
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                                        To me the main thing is to avoid anything sugary or refined. (We do ALA only and our yeast problems have not been too difficult. Maybe a bit of luck as well).

                                        Dagmar.
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: elveeraridenour
                                        To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 12:19 AM
                                        Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Natural Chelators




                                        A question- when chelating with ALA only what could be done to
                                        prevent yeast overgrowth? Should probiotics be one of the many
                                        supplement that need to be taked while chelating with ALA? I'm
                                        thinking of starting chelating my almost 4 year old using ALA only,
                                        so what dosage should i use? He is 34lbs. Thank you. Elveera




                                        --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Mum231ASD@a... wrote:
                                        > Mark - Have you foudn anybody yet who was moving metals out , with
                                        ANYTHING
                                        > and didn;t get yeast??? I don't think so. Moving metls = yeast,
                                        score 1 for
                                        > ALA :)
                                        > MAndi in UK
                                        >
                                        > This is something of course we would only hear on this list. Come
                                        on TK, the
                                        > ONLY safe natural chelator? I have been reading more and more how
                                        some
                                        > people have yeast problems with the ALA and I doubt if that is
                                        ONLY a
                                        > figment of their imaginations. Of course it is safe for you to
                                        say this here
                                        > but I doubt it would be safe to say it around the entire autism
                                        community.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • danasview
                                        ... I had confused Metal Free with NDF in my last message. I have read quite a number of positive stories about PCA, so that is the one [of these three] that
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Apr 26, 2005
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                                          --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "debbiel3560"
                                          <debbiel3560@y...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > It's just amazing to me how every chelator has such positives and
                                          > negatives. We have been using metal-free because it's been
                                          > recommended to me by three different physicians. One an MD one a DO
                                          > who is a DAN doctor, and a chriopracter. They state that all three
                                          > of them pretty much do the same thing,


                                          I had confused Metal Free with NDF in my last message. I have read
                                          quite a number of positive stories about PCA, so that is the one [of
                                          these three] that I would recommend most. Second is Metal Free, I
                                          have read several positive stories, and a few negative ones. PCA and
                                          Metal Free are ALA-based.

                                          NDF I have read only a very few success stories, and quite a few
                                          negative ones. At least 2-3 negative ones, the child did not get
                                          "back to normal" after the NDF was removed. So I would not recommend
                                          that one.

                                          Dana
                                        • danasview
                                          ... ANYTHING ... I can sure give a second vote for this. I am now reducing my kids iron levels, and WOW is their yeast high again. I have not seen yeast
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Apr 26, 2005
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                                            --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Mum231ASD@a... wrote:
                                            > Mark - Have you foudn anybody yet who was moving metals out , with
                                            ANYTHING
                                            > and didn;t get yeast??? I don't think so. Moving metls = yeast,


                                            I can sure give a "second" vote for this. I am now reducing my kids'
                                            iron levels, and WOW is their yeast high again. I have not seen yeast
                                            this bad since about two years ago!

                                            I have tried to keep it under control with probiotics, but I gave up
                                            that battle yesterday after giving 30 capsules, each one 10 billion
                                            cells, and still having yeast problems. I gave GSE and that really
                                            helped.

                                            Apparently, moving metals = yeast, no matter which metals you are moving.

                                            Dana
                                          • danasview
                                            ... I use GSE [grapefruit seed extract]. Other ideas here http://www.danasview.net/yeast.htm ... Yes ... Start with low dose, like maybe 10mg per dose, see
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Apr 26, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "elveeraridenour"
                                              <elveeraridenour@y...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > A question- when chelating with ALA only what could be done to
                                              > prevent yeast overgrowth?


                                              I use GSE [grapefruit seed extract]. Other ideas here

                                              http://www.danasview.net/yeast.htm


                                              >>Should probiotics be one of the many
                                              > supplement that need to be taked while chelating with ALA?


                                              Yes


                                              >> I'm
                                              > thinking of starting chelating my almost 4 year old using ALA only,
                                              > so what dosage should i use? He is 34lbs.


                                              Start with low dose, like maybe 10mg per dose, see how he does.

                                              Dana
                                            • debbiel3560
                                              This is where I get SO confused. We started on DMSA and did 8 rounds. On the 8th round our son broke his elbow and our DO feared that he was chelating from
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Apr 26, 2005
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                                                This is where I get SO confused. We started on DMSA and did 8
                                                rounds. On the 8th round our son broke his elbow and our DO feared
                                                that he was chelating from his bones and suggested we stop DMSA. He
                                                extreted unbelievable amounts of lead after round one, five, and
                                                eight. I have urine tests on those three rounds.

                                                In a state of panic, I ran off to Edelson last August and had him
                                                run tests and just stayed. While we were there, we did DMSA, DMSO,
                                                and EDTA. A little more lead came out on the first heavy metal
                                                challenge, after that nothing. We did hair, urine, and feces
                                                tests. We began sauna therpy and this seemed to help, so I thought
                                                maybe at this point his issues were more chemical based. Dr.
                                                Edelson was shut down by the FDA while we were there, so we could
                                                not continue the therapy there. He was a difficult man anyway, so I
                                                was somewhat relieved. I bought a sauna for the home and we
                                                continue to do that at home as well as hot tub therapy.

                                                We came home and I sent his test results provided by Edelson to a
                                                friend of a friend who is a chemist. He claims that from his ratios
                                                he can tell that Mark is still harboring heavy metals and is a
                                                classic non-extretor. He suggested using silica, sulphur, iodine,
                                                potassium, zinc, calcium, and magnesium and designed a mineral plan
                                                for us. I couldn't believe the results. My son extreted SO MUCH
                                                aluminum I could not believe it. He also extreted a great deal of
                                                cadmium none of which came out with the other chelators. I asked
                                                Jack (the chemist) why and he said that aluminum was a 3+ charge and
                                                DMSA was a 2+ charge (or something like that, I'd have to look at my
                                                notes again) so it would be ineffective in getting out some of the
                                                other metals he suspects my son has. We are getting ready to do
                                                another hair test through Jack and he will again look at the ratios
                                                (along with the test results from my son's feces test) and provide a
                                                plan. The reason I started to go with metal free was because I felt
                                                the traditional chelators weren't getting to the "root" of my son's
                                                issues and the product seemed to be supplement/vitamin based and
                                                that is what he was having success with. His first feces test
                                                indicates high levelss of uranium and tungsten. We have eliminated
                                                as many irradiated foods as a result of finding the uranium. I
                                                don't want to harm my son and the comment about estrogen scares me.
                                                My son had high levels of DDT in his fat biopsy and we have been
                                                avoiding estogen potentiators such as soy, since DDT mimics
                                                estrogen. If this has the ability to affect estrogen than I need to
                                                have a more thorogh discussion with my doctors and maybe just stick
                                                to the mineral chelation. Then I get worried because of all the
                                                posts about their not being something to bind to the newly
                                                redistributed toxins. Could something like metal magnet from
                                                Enzymetic help?

                                                Help!!!!
                                                Debbie

                                                --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Kerbob" <robertbloch@c...>
                                                wrote:
                                                > We used Metal Free for six months. Our son got remarkably worse
                                                i.e. unhappy, very aggressive, short fuse, scratching people, over-
                                                all miserable. We could accept this in exchange for mercury
                                                removal. However, no mercury registered in any of the fecal metals
                                                tests run.
                                                >
                                                > Metal Free is not a chelator so therefore don't expect it to
                                                chelate.
                                                >
                                                > We started DMSA/ALA on the Cutler protocol last May. For us this
                                                was the most important decision we've had to make, and we are glad
                                                we did.
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: Rabbitbrain@e...
                                                > To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:57 PM
                                                > Subject: RE: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Natural Chelators
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I have no testing that showed the Metal Free actually works or
                                                > not. I just have to say that when I tried it I felt extra good
                                                on it.
                                                > I had to stop because it also boosted my estrogen levels and
                                                > my periods got awful sick. So now I avoid it. I don't like the
                                                > cost of the product though but it is convenient to take.
                                                >
                                                > Liz D.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > [Original Message]
                                                > > From: debbiel3560 <debbiel3560@y...>
                                                > > To: <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > Date: 4/25/2005 11:16:41 AM
                                                > > Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Natural Chelators
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > It's just amazing to me how every chelator has such positives
                                                and
                                                > > negatives. We have been using metal-free because it's been
                                                > > recommended to me by three different physicians. One an MD
                                                one a DO
                                                > > who is a DAN doctor, and a chriopracter. They state that all
                                                three
                                                > > of them pretty much do the same thing, but they all said that
                                                the
                                                > > bond in metal free (I can't remember why) was stronger so
                                                there was
                                                > > less chance of it breaking free and being redistributed in the
                                                > > body. I remember calling metal-free at the time and speaking
                                                to
                                                > > someone, who confirmed this as well, but I can't remember the
                                                > > distinguishing ingredient. When I find it I'll post.
                                                > >
                                                > > Deb
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > =======================================================
                                                > Statements posted on this list are for information only,
                                                > and should NOT be taken as medical advice. If you need
                                                > medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
                                                > authorized to give medical advice: doctors.
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                                                > Post message: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
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                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • TK
                                                ... on TK, the ... some ... a ... this here ... community. TK--- Then why don t you do some research on the protocol and ALA [as we have suggested many times]
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Apr 26, 2005
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Sircus Ac., OMD"
                                                  <director@i...> wrote:
                                                  > ALA is the only natural chelator that is safe when used
                                                  > on an appropriate protocol [Andy's].

                                                  >
                                                  > This is something of course we would only hear on this list. Come
                                                  on TK, the
                                                  > ONLY safe natural chelator? I have been reading more and more how
                                                  some
                                                  > people have yeast problems with the ALA and I doubt if that is ONLY
                                                  a
                                                  > figment of their imaginations. Of course it is safe for you to say
                                                  this here
                                                  > but I doubt it would be safe to say it around the entire autism
                                                  community.


                                                  TK--- Then why don't you do some research on the protocol and ALA [as
                                                  we have suggested many times] so you understand what I am refering
                                                  to. But of course you will not do this because you are afraid you
                                                  are wrong and not willing to learn or listen appropriately. If you
                                                  did you would understand yeast,candida problems are common for Hg
                                                  toxic individuals. The information is available, I am not here to do
                                                  your work for you, do it yourself.



                                                  > Certainly I do not want to start all over again and comment on your
                                                  > statement here about appropriate protocols since I know what you
                                                  think
                                                  > already about this. That would be tiring for everyone.


                                                  TK--- I think this is exactly what you want. And of course you take
                                                  things out of context and do not repost the entire information just
                                                  so you have something to complain about.



                                                  TK---This is obviously just an attack on me because of your own
                                                  inferiority complex, lack of knowledge about ALA and to stir up
                                                  trouble. IMO you are just bored again and need some sort of
                                                  attention, get a life. Get rid of your own Hg and amalgams and clear
                                                  up your persecuted mind so you can actually understand the process.
                                                • TK
                                                  TK--- There are many natural and rx agents to treat candida while chelating, probiotics are one of the natrual ones to help treat it. Large quantities of
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Apr 26, 2005
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    TK--- There are many natural and rx agents to treat candida while
                                                    chelating, probiotics are one of the natrual ones to help treat it.
                                                    Large quantities of quality probiotics are usually necessary to
                                                    provide therapeutic results. I do not prefer GSE as it is so strong
                                                    it can kill the good with the bad but many people seem to have
                                                    success with it. - Other agents -
                                                    http://www.candidadiscountoutlet.com/products_all.html



                                                    --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "elveeraridenour"
                                                    <elveeraridenour@y...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > A question- when chelating with ALA only what could be done to
                                                    > prevent yeast overgrowth? Should probiotics be one of the many
                                                    > supplement that need to be taked while chelating with ALA? I'm
                                                    > thinking of starting chelating my almost 4 year old using ALA only,
                                                    > so what dosage should i use? He is 34lbs. Thank you. Elveera
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Mum231ASD@a... wrote:
                                                    > > Mark - Have you foudn anybody yet who was moving metals out ,
                                                    with
                                                    > ANYTHING
                                                    > > and didn;t get yeast??? I don't think so. Moving metls = yeast,
                                                    > score 1 for
                                                    > > ALA :)
                                                    > > MAndi in UK
                                                    > >
                                                    > > This is something of course we would only hear on this list.
                                                    Come
                                                    > on TK, the
                                                    > > ONLY safe natural chelator? I have been reading more and more
                                                    how
                                                    > some
                                                    > > people have yeast problems with the ALA and I doubt if that is
                                                    > ONLY a
                                                    > > figment of their imaginations. Of course it is safe for you to
                                                    > say this here
                                                    > > but I doubt it would be safe to say it around the entire autism
                                                    > community.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Leirs B. Pagaspas
                                                    Im confused.. The only ALA that I see here is in Capsule so how do i know if what I will be giving him will be the right dossage. What will happen If I overdo
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Apr 26, 2005
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Im confused.. The only ALA that I see here is in Capsule so how do i know if what I will be giving him will be the right dossage. What will happen If I overdo it? Is there such a thing as ALA overdose?

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                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • TK
                                                      ... i know if what I will be giving him will be the right dossage. TK--- Dosage recommendations are in the files section. Please take some time to review the
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Apr 26, 2005
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Leirs B. Pagaspas"
                                                        <leirapagaspas@y...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Im confused.. The only ALA that I see here is in Capsule so how do
                                                        i know if what I will be giving him will be the right dossage.

                                                        TK--- Dosage recommendations are in the files section. Please take
                                                        some time to review the FAQ etc in the files section before you start
                                                        anything.


                                                        What will happen If I overdo it?

                                                        TK--- You can make him much worse.


                                                        Is there such a thing as ALA overdose?


                                                        TK--- Yes


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