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merc toxicity vs. autism (was Re: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Andy, Moria--Hair test question

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  • AndyCutler@aol.com
    ... (and ... Not everyone gets the same sypmtoms exactly. Adults who get toxic don t seem to turn autistic, this seems only to happen to children. Also, some
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 18, 2001
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      --- In Autism-Mercury@y..., wolffroger@s... wrote:
      > --- In Autism-Mercury@y..., Moria Merriweather <moriam@e...> wrote:
      > > >If the symptoms of autism > >and mercury-toxicity are similar
      (and
      > they seemed almost identical > >when I looked), what makes someone
      > mercury-toxic, but not autistic,

      Not everyone gets the same sypmtoms exactly. Adults who get toxic
      don't seem to turn autistic, this seems only to happen to children.
      Also, some children get other developmental problems but don't become
      autistic. Exactly what happens depends on the specific biochemistry
      of each individual.

      Andy

      > >and how can you tell? > >

      Hair element profile by Doctor's Data, fractionated urine porphyrins,
      endocrine evaluation, and most importantly a careful consideration of
      their signs and symptoms.

      > > >Gail
      > >
      > > Hi Gail,
      > >
      > > um....hum..... I was all set to type here, and now I see a
      different
      > > possible meaning of your question. . . .
      > >
      > > Okay. Then, rereading your post, I can see it might mean
      > > "what is the difference in symptoms of autism and
      > > merc-toxicity-without-autism". That is also a very provocative
      > > question, and I really do not know the answer.
      > >
      > > Since I don't know what the diagnostic "definition" for autism
      > > includes, I can't really speculate too much, but whatever it
      > > is, there has to be a lot of overlap with mercury poisoning.
      > >
      > > Moria
      > Dear Moria,
      >
      > Thank-you for your thoughtful response. It was your second reading
      > of my question that was closer to what I was attempting to ask. I
      > think I was particularly interested because my daughter has been
      > assessed as global developmental delayed but as not meeting the
      > criteria for a PDD. She shares a lot of the same issues as those
      in
      > the autism spectrum, and I have been coming to the agonizing idea
      > that my Rhogam injections and the fact she was vaccinated twice for
      > MMR within the space of six months may be a factor in her delays.
      >
      > If anyone wants to have a stab at the second interpretation of my
      > question, I'd love to read about it.
      >
      > Gail (mum to Alice, 5, global developmental delay, and Philippa, 9,
      > gifted)
    • l_shepard@mymailstation.com
      Mercury affects different people differently. It may also depend on type and time of exposure and whether chronic or acute. It s also bioaccumulative so a
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 18, 2001
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        Mercury affects different people differently. It may also depend on type and time of exposure and whether chronic or acute. It's also bioaccumulative so a multigenerational factor plays a role.
        Linda S

        On Wed, 17 October 2001, wolffroger@... wrote:

        >
        > <html><body>
        > <tt>
        > --- In Autism-Mercury@y..., gln444@y... wrote:<BR>
        > > Our son, just turned 4, not autistic but mercury toxic . . . .<BR>
        > <BR>
        > Okay, I swear I checked the files and ran "mercury-toxic" through the <BR>
        > search archives, but I'm still in a fog.  If the symptoms of autism <BR>
        > and mercury-toxicity are similar (and they seemed almost identical <BR>
        > when I looked), what makes someone mercury-toxic, but not autistic, <BR>
        > and how can you tell?  Is it too obvious that I'm new?<BR>
        > <BR>
        > Gail<BR>
        > <BR>
        > </tt>
        >
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      • cheeriosgirl1
        ... someone ... children. ... become ... biochemistry ... porphyrins, ... of ... reading ... I ... those ... idea ... for ... my ... 9, ... how do i order the
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 31 9:19 PM
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          --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, AndyCutler@... wrote:
          >
          > --- In Autism-Mercury@y..., wolffroger@s... wrote:
          > > --- In Autism-Mercury@y..., Moria Merriweather <moriam@e...>
          wrote:
          > > > >If the symptoms of autism > >and mercury-toxicity are similar
          > (and
          > > they seemed almost identical > >when I looked), what makes
          someone
          > > mercury-toxic, but not autistic,
          >
          > Not everyone gets the same sypmtoms exactly. Adults who get toxic
          > don't seem to turn autistic, this seems only to happen to
          children.
          > Also, some children get other developmental problems but don't
          become
          > autistic. Exactly what happens depends on the specific
          biochemistry
          > of each individual.
          >
          > Andy
          >
          > > >and how can you tell? > >
          >
          > Hair element profile by Doctor's Data, fractionated urine
          porphyrins,
          > endocrine evaluation, and most importantly a careful consideration
          of
          > their signs and symptoms.
          >
          > > > >Gail
          > > >
          > > > Hi Gail,
          > > >
          > > > um....hum..... I was all set to type here, and now I see a
          > different
          > > > possible meaning of your question. . . .
          > > >
          > > > Okay. Then, rereading your post, I can see it might mean
          > > > "what is the difference in symptoms of autism and
          > > > merc-toxicity-without-autism". That is also a very provocative
          > > > question, and I really do not know the answer.
          > > >
          > > > Since I don't know what the diagnostic "definition" for autism
          > > > includes, I can't really speculate too much, but whatever it
          > > > is, there has to be a lot of overlap with mercury poisoning.
          > > >
          > > > Moria
          > > Dear Moria,
          > >
          > > Thank-you for your thoughtful response. It was your second
          reading
          > > of my question that was closer to what I was attempting to ask.
          I
          > > think I was particularly interested because my daughter has been
          > > assessed as global developmental delayed but as not meeting the
          > > criteria for a PDD. She shares a lot of the same issues as
          those
          > in
          > > the autism spectrum, and I have been coming to the agonizing
          idea
          > > that my Rhogam injections and the fact she was vaccinated twice
          for
          > > MMR within the space of six months may be a factor in her delays.
          > >
          > > If anyone wants to have a stab at the second interpretation of
          my
          > > question, I'd love to read about it.
          > >
          > > Gail (mum to Alice, 5, global developmental delay, and Philippa,
          9,
          > > gifted)
          >
          how do i order the hair test
        • moriamerri
          ... that is great! ... the ... been ... How long was it between starting the sulphur and the hair test? Hair grows VERY slowly. It could be that the sulfur
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 31 10:59 PM
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            --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, gln444@... wrote:
            >
            > Our son, just turned 4, not autistic but mercury toxic, has been
            > showing steady improvement since we began chelating, particularly
            > since we introduced ALA.

            that is great!

            > We are following Andy's protocol 4 on 10
            > off, with dosages in the Andy appropriate range. His OT has also
            > seen what she has described as remarkable progress. My question
            > concerns a GSDL hair test which just returned.
            > His diagnosis was determined by a series of tests which tool place
            > through an orthomollecular group over the course of a year. On
            the
            > third round of tests with them, mercury showed up huge in his hair
            > test, way over the legal limit, because of some sulphur they had
            been
            > giving him.

            How long was it between starting the sulphur and the hair test?
            Hair grows VERY slowly. It could be that the sulfur was not
            related. Not that that is what you asked!


            > The symptoms of mercury poisoning fit him to the letter
            > and we began the chelation.

            the fact that chelation is helping is what matters most, IMO.

            > His chelating physician, not a member of the orthomollecular
            group,
            > wanted to do a hair test using the GSDL which we did on the fourth
            > day of his chelating cycle, eight round in total and fourth with
            > ALA.

            what day it is in the chelation cycle makes no difference.
            hair grows VERY slowly -- you're getting results that are
            at least a month old. So the fact that it was the 8th ROUND
            might matter.

            > Mercury came back at .4 , well within the legal limit. Does
            > this mean that we have already driven most of the mercury out of
            > him?

            seems extremely unlikely.

            > Or is their reason to think that there is plenty still in him
            > and this level in the hair is not indicative at this point of the
            > amount of mercury still in his brain?

            there is no test for brain mercury or body mercury specifically,
            although the mineral transport thing is really going by body
            mercury (not brain). But that doesn't even apply in your case.....
            because you've been chelating, so mineral transport is (no longer)
            a useful test (for you).

            I'm not sure I'm "helping you" at all here. FWIW, I think that
            testing is NOT useful for the purpose you (or the docs?) are
            trying to use it for. I don't think you can use tests to
            determine when you are "done". And I don't think you would
            be done this soon.

            good wishes,
            Moria
            http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/
            Mercury Detox: Information, Tools, and Resources


            Thanks in advance for any
            > replies.
            >
          • Kelly Brennan-Jones
            Hi Gail, My son is on the spectrum (PDD-NOS) but his twin sister is not. Both, according to two out of the three counting rules, are mercury toxic. It is my
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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              Hi Gail,
              My son is on the spectrum (PDD-NOS) but his twin sister is not. Both,
              according to two out of the three "counting rules," are mercury toxic.
              It is my understanding that individual differences in genes as well as
              testosterone levels (perhaps why boys are more prone to be ASD)
              influence reaction to mercury toxicity. (Both had one flu shot at 8-9
              months of age, plus I had a flu shot while pregnant with them.) They
              never had a live-virus vaccine, never suffered anything more serious
              than a cold, and so their viral/bacterial load seems to be low. If
              they had, perhaps one or both would be showing the full set of
              autistic symptoms. (I was going to wean them but now I think I'll wait
              a while to help their immune systems further!)

              Although not on the spectrum, my daughter is still delayed in speech
              relative to other 2-year olds, plus she can get really aggressive, and
              her tantrums are quite striking, even for a 2-year old. I think that
              the mercury (plus lead) in their bodies is too blame, and I'm
              chelating both now. (And both are receiving B12 shots.) I see real
              progress in my son, but not my daughter yet.

              I also had my own hair tested -- did not pass any of the counting
              rules, although I had other oddities (e.g., high uranium). I was
              wondering about what Moria said -- does a clean hair test mean no
              mercury in the brain or just no mercury in the body? I'm wondering
              whether to try ALA chelation or just to skip it. I do want more
              children, if possible, so I'd like to be as healthy as possible.

              Good luck to you,
              Kelly


              --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, gln444@... wrote:
              >
              > Our son, just turned 4, not autistic but mercury toxic, has been
              > showing steady improvement since we began chelating, particularly
              > since we introduced ALA. We are following Andy's protocol 4 on 10
              > off, with dosages in the Andy appropriate range. His OT has also
              > seen what she has described as remarkable progress. My question
              > concerns a GSDL hair test which just returned.
              > His diagnosis was determined by a series of tests which tool place
              > through an orthomollecular group over the course of a year. On the
              > third round of tests with them, mercury showed up huge in his hair
              > test, way over the legal limit, because of some sulphur they had
              been
              > giving him. The symptoms of mercury poisoning fit him to the letter
              > and we began the chelation.
              > His chelating physician, not a member of the orthomollecular group,
              > wanted to do a hair test using the GSDL which we did on the fourth
              > day of his chelating cycle, eight round in total and fourth with
              > ALA. Mercury came back at .4 , well within the legal limit. Does
              > this mean that we have already driven most of the mercury out of
              > him? Or is their reason to think that there is plenty still in him
              > and this level in the hair is not indicative at this point of the
              > amount of mercury still in his brain? Thanks in advance for any
              > replies.
              >
            • moriamerri
              ... Hi Kelly, Poor mineral transport is a response to BODY mercury. Now bear with me on this, please! Anyone who has enough body mercury to have impaired
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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                --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Brennan-Jones"
                <energy_n_light@...> wrote:
                > I also had my own hair tested -- did not pass any of the counting
                > rules, although I had other oddities (e.g., high uranium). I was
                > wondering about what Moria said -- does a clean hair test mean no
                > mercury in the brain or just no mercury in the body? I'm wondering
                > whether to try ALA chelation or just to skip it. I do want more
                > children, if possible, so I'd like to be as healthy as possible.
                >
                > Good luck to you,
                > Kelly

                Hi Kelly,

                Poor mineral transport is a response to BODY mercury.

                Now bear with me on this, please!

                Anyone who has enough body mercury to have impaired mineral
                transport ALSO has mercury in their brain.

                So far, I think that is not so confusing. Here is the bit
                that I think can be confusing:

                BODY mercury will get removed "naturally" over a period of
                a few years but brain mercury won't.

                Now (bear with me) what does that mean to you?

                It means that IF you were at one time poisoned AND you have
                had no mercury exposure for a number of years then you MIGHT
                have normal mineral transport and a lot of mercury in your
                brain.

                People who have been mercury free for several years OR who
                have chelated should not use the counting rules.

                Does this help?

                good wishes,
                Moria
                http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/
                Mercury Detox: Information, Tools, and Resources
              • Kelly Brennan-Jones
                Hi Moria, I am very grateful for your explanation; it all makes perfect sense to me. From what you say, if I had lots of amalgam fillings, I d probably see
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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                  Hi Moria,
                  I am very grateful for your explanation; it all makes perfect sense to
                  me. From what you say, if I had lots of amalgam fillings, I'd probably
                  see mercury coming out according to the counting rules. Do you think
                  I should chelate with ALA?
                  -Kelly

                  >
                  > Hi Kelly,
                  >
                  > Poor mineral transport is a response to BODY mercury.
                  >
                  > Now bear with me on this, please!
                  >
                  > Anyone who has enough body mercury to have impaired mineral
                  > transport ALSO has mercury in their brain.
                  >
                  > So far, I think that is not so confusing. Here is the bit
                  > that I think can be confusing:
                  >
                  > BODY mercury will get removed "naturally" over a period of
                  > a few years but brain mercury won't.
                  >
                  > Now (bear with me) what does that mean to you?
                  >
                  > It means that IF you were at one time poisoned AND you have
                  > had no mercury exposure for a number of years then you MIGHT
                  > have normal mineral transport and a lot of mercury in your
                  > brain.
                  >
                  > People who have been mercury free for several years OR who
                  > have chelated should not use the counting rules.
                  >
                  > Does this help?
                  >
                  > good wishes,
                  > Moria
                  > http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/
                  > Mercury Detox: Information, Tools, and Resources
                  >
                • Mum231ASD@aol.com
                  In a message dated 01/08/2006 19:07:51 GMT Daylight Time, energy_n_light@yahoo.com writes: I am very grateful for your explanation; it all makes perfect sense
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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                    In a message dated 01/08/2006 19:07:51 GMT Daylight Time,
                    energy_n_light@... writes:

                    I am very grateful for your explanation; it all makes perfect sense to
                    me. From what you say, if I had lots of amalgam fillings, I'd probably
                    see mercury coming out according to the counting rules. Do you think
                    I should chelate with ALA?



                    >>>I had 28 amalgams and no Hg on ta hair test.

                    DO NOT use ALA if you have amlagam (silver) fillings

                    YOu could consider NCD - Liquid Zeolites - I uysed it when I had amalgam in
                    with no troubles, it doesn't work in same way as ALA

                    Mandi in UK


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • anneecbrynn
                    Moria, I have never thought about it that way. Thank you. Anne
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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                      Moria,

                      I have never thought about it that way. Thank you.

                      Anne

                      --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "moriamerri" <moriam@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Poor mineral transport is a response to BODY mercury.
                      >
                      > Now bear with me on this, please!
                      >
                      > Anyone who has enough body mercury to have impaired mineral
                      > transport ALSO has mercury in their brain.
                      >
                      > So far, I think that is not so confusing. Here is the bit
                      > that I think can be confusing:
                      >
                      > BODY mercury will get removed "naturally" over a period of
                      > a few years but brain mercury won't.
                      >
                      > Now (bear with me) what does that mean to you?
                      >
                      > It means that IF you were at one time poisoned AND you have
                      > had no mercury exposure for a number of years then you MIGHT
                      > have normal mineral transport and a lot of mercury in your
                      > brain.
                      >
                      > People who have been mercury free for several years OR who
                      > have chelated should not use the counting rules.
                      >
                      > Does this help?
                      >
                      > good wishes,
                      > Moria
                      > http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/
                      > Mercury Detox: Information, Tools, and Resources
                      >
                    • Kelly Brennan-Jones
                      Thanks, I have only one amalgam filling. I did have a flu shot in 2003 but that s it. So I expect I am not mercury poisoned, or if I am, the stuff is in my
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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                        Thanks, I have only one amalgam filling. I did have a flu shot in 2003
                        but that's it. So I expect I am not mercury poisoned, or if I am, the
                        stuff is in my brain. I guess there is no real point to getting hair
                        tested. Just assume amalgams are bad, remove them, chelate to see if
                        mercury is excreted, and be done with it. My DH has 15 amalgams and
                        I'd love to get rid of them, too! -Kelly

                        --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Mum231ASD@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > In a message dated 01/08/2006 19:07:51 GMT Daylight Time,
                        > energy_n_light@... writes:
                        >
                        > I am very grateful for your explanation; it all makes perfect sense
                        to
                        > me. From what you say, if I had lots of amalgam fillings, I'd
                        probably
                        > see mercury coming out according to the counting rules. Do you
                        think
                        > I should chelate with ALA?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >>>I had 28 amalgams and no Hg on ta hair test.
                        >
                        > DO NOT use ALA if you have amlagam (silver) fillings
                        >
                        > YOu could consider NCD - Liquid Zeolites - I uysed it when I had
                        amalgam in
                        > with no troubles, it doesn't work in same way as ALA
                        >
                        > Mandi in UK
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Jan
                        I had fourteen amalgams, the first one at age 10 and by 16 I had all fourteen. I showed no deranged mineral transport on my May hair test before removal. But I
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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                          I had fourteen amalgams, the first one at age 10 and by 16 I had all
                          fourteen. I showed no deranged mineral transport on my May hair test
                          before removal. But I have adrenal fatigue, thryoid problems and all
                          the other mercury goodies.
                          While you don't need the hair test, since knowing you were exposed
                          is enough, they do show interesting goodies. Stay away from a
                          challenge test to see how much you excrete. You must wait three
                          months after amalgam removal to use ala.
                          And 15 amalgams..yes, you really want to work on dh getting those
                          out. I can't beleive the difference it makes it things you never
                          would think of. My vision got clearer within hours or removal, no
                          more nightmares, no headaches from computers or in stores with
                          flourescent lights, warm hands/feet, regained coordination and
                          better useage of hands.

                          --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Brennan-Jones"
                          <energy_n_light@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks, I have only one amalgam filling. I did have a flu shot in
                          2003
                          > but that's it. So I expect I am not mercury poisoned, or if I am,
                          the
                          > stuff is in my brain. I guess there is no real point to getting
                          hair
                          > tested. Just assume amalgams are bad, remove them, chelate to see
                          if
                          > mercury is excreted, and be done with it. My DH has 15 amalgams
                          and
                          > I'd love to get rid of them, too! -Kelly
                          >
                          > --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Mum231ASD@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > In a message dated 01/08/2006 19:07:51 GMT Daylight Time,
                          > > energy_n_light@ writes:
                          > >
                          > > I am very grateful for your explanation; it all makes perfect
                          sense
                          > to
                          > > me. From what you say, if I had lots of amalgam fillings, I'd
                          > probably
                          > > see mercury coming out according to the counting rules. Do you
                          > think
                          > > I should chelate with ALA?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > >>>I had 28 amalgams and no Hg on ta hair test.
                          > >
                          > > DO NOT use ALA if you have amlagam (silver) fillings
                          > >
                          > > YOu could consider NCD - Liquid Zeolites - I uysed it when I had
                          > amalgam in
                          > > with no troubles, it doesn't work in same way as ALA
                          > >
                          > > Mandi in UK
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                        • moriamerri
                          ... sense to ... probably ... think ... I m sorry Kelly, I ve lost track of what you said about yourself or your mercury status. If you think you are mercury
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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                            --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Brennan-Jones"
                            <energy_n_light@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Moria,
                            > I am very grateful for your explanation; it all makes perfect
                            sense to
                            > me. From what you say, if I had lots of amalgam fillings, I'd
                            probably
                            > see mercury coming out according to the counting rules. Do you
                            think
                            > I should chelate with ALA?
                            > -Kelly

                            I'm sorry Kelly, I've lost track of what you said about yourself
                            or your mercury status. If you think you are mercury toxic,
                            then, yes, I'd say ALA is a good idea.

                            good wishes,
                            Moria
                            http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/
                            Mercury Detox: Information, Tools, and Resources
                          • moriamerri
                            ... 2003 ... the ... Actually, as I understand it (which may have a few holes) I would expect you to have impaired mineral transport IF you are mercury toxic.
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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                              --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Brennan-Jones"
                              <energy_n_light@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thanks, I have only one amalgam filling. I did have a flu shot in
                              2003
                              > but that's it. So I expect I am not mercury poisoned, or if I am,
                              the
                              > stuff is in my brain.

                              Actually, as I understand it (which may have a few holes)
                              I would expect you to have impaired mineral transport IF
                              you are mercury toxic. Because of the amalgam, you have
                              continued exposure, so I think your body has not cleared
                              the mercury. As I understand it, as long as there is
                              exposure, you won't really start dumping it all. I guess
                              I'm not sure if that makes sense to me or not!

                              good wishes,
                              Moria
                              http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/
                              Mercury Detox: Information, Tools, and Resources


                              > I guess there is no real point to getting hair
                              > tested. Just assume amalgams are bad, remove them, chelate to see
                              if
                              > mercury is excreted, and be done with it. My DH has 15 amalgams
                              and
                              > I'd love to get rid of them, too! -Kelly
                              >
                              > --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Mum231ASD@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > In a message dated 01/08/2006 19:07:51 GMT Daylight Time,
                              > > energy_n_light@ writes:
                              > >
                              > > I am very grateful for your explanation; it all makes perfect
                              sense
                              > to
                              > > me. From what you say, if I had lots of amalgam fillings, I'd
                              > probably
                              > > see mercury coming out according to the counting rules. Do you
                              > think
                              > > I should chelate with ALA?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > >>>I had 28 amalgams and no Hg on ta hair test.
                              > >
                              > > DO NOT use ALA if you have amlagam (silver) fillings
                              > >
                              > > YOu could consider NCD - Liquid Zeolites - I uysed it when I had
                              > amalgam in
                              > > with no troubles, it doesn't work in same way as ALA
                              > >
                              > > Mandi in UK
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
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