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Let's stop gyrating...

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  • andrewhallcutler
    Apparently another nutter has DISCOVERED THE CAUSE FOR AUTISM!!!!!! and that it is all being hidden by CONSPIRACIES!!!!!! AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!! In my personal
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 13, 2008
      Apparently another nutter has DISCOVERED THE CAUSE FOR AUTISM!!!!!! and that it is all
      being hidden by CONSPIRACIES!!!!!!



      AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!



      In my personal (though carefully considered) opinion, microstrokes caused by vaccines or
      any other insult are likely to be relevant in very few, if any, autistic children.

      I have actually reviewed cases of autistic children who did have strokes and other brain
      damage that mainstream medical sources agreed was there.

      I've reviewed cases of adults with assorted brain injuries as well.

      These do not add up to the deficits seen in autism.

      There actually IS a known syndrome in adults of many small strokes (multi-infarct
      dementia) and I have run across this. I do not believe autistic children have it as a rule,
      however I will point out that the accepted - and effective - treatment for it is Cavinton,
      which is a drug in most of the world but is a nutritional supplement in the United States
      and is sold under the name Vinpocetine. It is very effective in ameliorating the symptoms
      of multi-infarct dementia. It is not particularly expensive, it is pretty safe, and it is
      discussed in my book Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment. ( www.noamalgam.com )

      I would appreciate it if we could stick to civil discourse in which it is accepted that
      reasonable people may differ in opinion, and that everyone really is here to try to help
      even if they don't all immediately recognize the UNRECOGNIZED GENIUS of someone who
      DISCOVERS THE HIDDEN TRUTH!!!!!! only to be suppressed by EVIL CONSPIRACIES!!!!!

      I'm actually surprised anyone who reads the microvascular stroke websites can take them
      seriously given the atmospherics. Personally I do pore over this kind of thing anyway
      because it is surprising where insights and discoveries can pop up - but this is not THE
      cause of autism, or even a very common contributor to it, if it has relevance at all.

      Andy
    • Elizabeth Brandegee
      Andy, don t make your own micro vascular stroke now :) It s easy to assume these things, if you haven t spoken to him. When someone is onto something that is
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 13, 2008
        Andy, don't make your own micro vascular stroke now :)
        It's easy to assume these things, if you haven't spoken to him. When
        someone is onto something that is truly a breakthrough and does dig
        into Pharma's pocket and foundation, historically there has always
        been a 'conspiracy' reaction. Those who have been no real threat have
        been left to be.
        But fortunately this whole trend is now changing for those who are the
        forerunners in a big way, to begin a new paradigm not only in health,
        but politics, money and other arenas.
        Best wishes,
        Liz



        --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "andrewhallcutler"
        <AndyCutler@...> wrote:
        >
        > Apparently another nutter has DISCOVERED THE CAUSE FOR AUTISM!!!!!!
        and that it is all
        > being hidden by CONSPIRACIES!!!!!!
        >
        >
        >
        > AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
        >
        >
        >
        > In my personal (though carefully considered) opinion, microstrokes
        caused by vaccines or
        > any other insult are likely to be relevant in very few, if any,
        autistic children.
        >
        > I have actually reviewed cases of autistic children who did have
        strokes and other brain
        > damage that mainstream medical sources agreed was there.
        >
        > I've reviewed cases of adults with assorted brain injuries as well.
        >
        > These do not add up to the deficits seen in autism.
        >
        > There actually IS a known syndrome in adults of many small strokes
        (multi-infarct
        > dementia) and I have run across this. I do not believe autistic
        children have it as a rule,
        > however I will point out that the accepted - and effective -
        treatment for it is Cavinton,
        > which is a drug in most of the world but is a nutritional supplement
        in the United States
        > and is sold under the name Vinpocetine. It is very effective in
        ameliorating the symptoms
        > of multi-infarct dementia. It is not particularly expensive, it is
        pretty safe, and it is
        > discussed in my book Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment. (
        www.noamalgam.com )
        >
        > I would appreciate it if we could stick to civil discourse in which
        it is accepted that
        > reasonable people may differ in opinion, and that everyone really is
        here to try to help
        > even if they don't all immediately recognize the UNRECOGNIZED GENIUS
        of someone who
        > DISCOVERS THE HIDDEN TRUTH!!!!!! only to be suppressed by EVIL
        CONSPIRACIES!!!!!
        >
        > I'm actually surprised anyone who reads the microvascular stroke
        websites can take them
        > seriously given the atmospherics. Personally I do pore over this
        kind of thing anyway
        > because it is surprising where insights and discoveries can pop up -
        but this is not THE
        > cause of autism, or even a very common contributor to it, if it has
        relevance at all.
        >
        > Andy
        >
      • andrewhallcutler
        ... More frustrated by the high level of gullibility that seems to be characteristic of internet lists, and the necessary effort to work through it with
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 13, 2008
          > Seems angry to me.

          More frustrated by the high level of gullibility that seems to be characteristic of internet
          lists, and the necessary effort to work through it with people. I know it is necessary for
          me to be patient and go through this kind of thing time and time again, but it does get
          frustrating.

          Andy
        • Kathryn Hudson
          what about looking at this as not a cause but a symptom of what happens when a child has a bad reaction to a vaccine therefore beginning the symptoms of
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
            what about looking at this as not a cause but a symptom of what happens
            when a child has a bad reaction to a vaccine therefore beginning the
            symptoms
            of autism/mercury poisoning?
            kathy

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "andrewhallcutler" <AndyCutler@...>
            To: <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 10:26 PM
            Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Let's stop gyrating...


            > Apparently another nutter has DISCOVERED THE CAUSE FOR AUTISM!!!!!! and
            > that it is all
            > being hidden by CONSPIRACIES!!!!!!
            >
            >
            >
            > AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
            >
            >
            >
            > In my personal (though carefully considered) opinion, microstrokes caused
            > by vaccines or
            > any other insult are likely to be relevant in very few, if any, autistic
            > children.
            >
            > I have actually reviewed cases of autistic children who did have strokes
            > and other brain
            > damage that mainstream medical sources agreed was there.
            >
            > I've reviewed cases of adults with assorted brain injuries as well.
            >
            > These do not add up to the deficits seen in autism.
            >
            > There actually IS a known syndrome in adults of many small strokes
            > (multi-infarct
            > dementia) and I have run across this. I do not believe autistic children
            > have it as a rule,
            > however I will point out that the accepted - and effective - treatment for
            > it is Cavinton,
            > which is a drug in most of the world but is a nutritional supplement in
            > the United States
            > and is sold under the name Vinpocetine. It is very effective in
            > ameliorating the symptoms
            > of multi-infarct dementia. It is not particularly expensive, it is pretty
            > safe, and it is
            > discussed in my book Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment. (
            > www.noamalgam.com )
            >
            > I would appreciate it if we could stick to civil discourse in which it is
            > accepted that
            > reasonable people may differ in opinion, and that everyone really is here
            > to try to help
            > even if they don't all immediately recognize the UNRECOGNIZED GENIUS of
            > someone who
            > DISCOVERS THE HIDDEN TRUTH!!!!!! only to be suppressed by EVIL
            > CONSPIRACIES!!!!!
            >
            > I'm actually surprised anyone who reads the microvascular stroke websites
            > can take them
            > seriously given the atmospherics. Personally I do pore over this kind of
            > thing anyway
            > because it is surprising where insights and discoveries can pop up - but
            > this is not THE
            > cause of autism, or even a very common contributor to it, if it has
            > relevance at all.
            >
            > Andy
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > =======================================================
            > Statements posted on this list are for information only,
            > and should NOT be taken as medical advice. If you need
            > medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
            > authorized to give medical advice: doctors.
            >
            > Post message: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
            > Subscribe: Autism-Mercury-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Unsubscribe: Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Shortcut URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury
            > Answers to common questions:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/Mercury-Autism%20FAQYahoo!
            > Groups Links
            >
            >
            >


            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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            6:42 PM
          • Shelly Axe
            I certainly appreciate your genius and so does my son who owes his wellness to you, this list, and me. I just shake my head when I hear of autism speaks for
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
              I certainly appreciate your genius and so does my son who owes his wellness to you, this list, and me.

              I just shake my head when I hear of autism speaks for example, raising money to find the cure for autism. We have the cure right here.

              Shelly

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Elizabeth Brandegee
              Who seems angry??? I would look more closely at the post I responded to - get the joke?? Truly, lighten up here everyone. See Dr. Moulden s post below - we
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
                Who seems angry??? I would look more closely at the post I responded
                to - get the joke?? Truly, lighten up here everyone.
                See Dr. Moulden's post below - we actually can all work together!
                Liz

                --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Largey <l.largey@...> wrote:
                >
                > Seems angry to me.
                >
                >  38 and Mom to three
                > Tasha 23..new Mommy ( means I am a Grammy )
                > Casey-Mae 13..sweet as pie
                > Elijah 2.. ASD and beautiful
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: Elizabeth Brandegee <lightspirals@...>
                > To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:12:51 AM
                > Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Let's stop gyrating...
                >
                >
                > Andy, don't make your own micro vascular stroke now :)
                > It's easy to assume these things, if you haven't spoken to him. When
                > someone is onto something that is truly a breakthrough and does dig
                > into Pharma's pocket and foundation, historically there has always
                > been a 'conspiracy' reaction. Those who have been no real threat have
                > been left to be.
                > But fortunately this whole trend is now changing for those who are the
                > forerunners in a big way, to begin a new paradigm not only in health,
                > but politics, money and other arenas.
                > Best wishes,
                > Liz
                >
                > --- In Autism-Mercury@ yahoogroups. com, "andrewhallcutler"
                > <AndyCutler@ ...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Apparently another nutter has DISCOVERED THE CAUSE FOR AUTISM!!!!!!
                > and that it is all
                > > being hidden by CONSPIRACIES! !!!!!
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > AAAAAHHHHHH! !!!!!!!
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > In my personal (though carefully considered) opinion, microstrokes
                > caused by vaccines or
                > > any other insult are likely to be relevant in very few, if any,
                > autistic children.
                > >
                > > I have actually reviewed cases of autistic children who did have
                > strokes and other brain
                > > damage that mainstream medical sources agreed was there.
                > >
                > > I've reviewed cases of adults with assorted brain injuries as well.
                > >
                > > These do not add up to the deficits seen in autism..
                > >
                > > There actually IS a known syndrome in adults of many small strokes
                > (multi-infarct
                > > dementia) and I have run across this. I do not believe autistic
                > children have it as a rule,
                > > however I will point out that the accepted - and effective -
                > treatment for it is Cavinton,
                > > which is a drug in most of the world but is a nutritional supplement
                > in the United States
                > > and is sold under the name Vinpocetine. It is very effective in
                > ameliorating the symptoms
                > > of multi-infarct dementia. It is not particularly expensive, it is
                > pretty safe, and it is
                > > discussed in my book Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment. (
                > www.noamalgam. com )
                > >
                > > I would appreciate it if we could stick to civil discourse in which
                > it is accepted that
                > > reasonable people may differ in opinion, and that everyone really is
                > here to try to help
                > > even if they don't all immediately recognize the UNRECOGNIZED GENIUS
                > of someone who
                > > DISCOVERS THE HIDDEN TRUTH!!!!!! only to be suppressed by EVIL
                > CONSPIRACIES! !!!!
                > >
                > > I'm actually surprised anyone who reads the microvascular stroke
                > websites can take them
                > > seriously given the atmospherics. Personally I do pore over this
                > kind of thing anyway
                > > because it is surprising where insights and discoveries can pop up -
                > but this is not THE
                > > cause of autism, or even a very common contributor to it, if it has
                > relevance at all.
                > >
                > > Andy
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Maggie O'rourke
                Lisa, I would never presume to call you a bitch because you speak your mind.. I believe that s what Andy was doing as well. Despite popular belief I think this
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
                  Lisa, I would never presume to call you a bitch because you speak your mind.. I believe that's what Andy was doing as well. Despite popular belief I think this board does encourage independent thought, but you had better have some evidence to back up any claims you make. That's simply what we are asking of this doctor.In the last few days I have seen the boards that I belong to blow up over this issue, mostly by people who are excited about this doctor. Every other post is about how brilliant his theory is, how this will change everything, how kind this doctor is. My question is this: what does this mean to our kids?
                   
                  I have seen no posts from parents using any protocol by this doctor, no ideas on how to treat these "strokes", no earth shattering new ideas on protocols....nothing. What I have seen is talk about suing vaccine manufacturers, anger, talk about giving this guy all the money from Autism Speaks, and a beloved member of this board being slandered and accused of being Autism Diva.
                   
                  I love this board. Let me repeat, I LOVE THIS BOARD! A year ago I started treating my son biomedically based on a DAN doctor's findings. When I ran out of money, I though it was hopeless, that I'd never be able to chelate him or help repair him. I was at my lowest point. I found this board and the people on it helped me realize I could help my son myself. I still remember telling my husband about "this yahoo group that says we can help Dylan ourselves!" And that's exactly what we did. Andy's posts, as well as countless others (Rebecca, Jada, Linda, Linda J, Dana, and more) have literally kept me together. Today my non-verbal son talks, understands what I say to him, and is on his way to recovery.
                   
                  This board is protective of it's members. Every now and again someone comes on and claims to have the secret recipe of hebs and spices to cure our kids and they are met with people demanding proof. Usually they dissapear rather quickly. I love that part of this group, because believe me, there are times I could easily have been tricked into doing all sorts of crazy things.....I have felt so deperate.   This group helps to weed out the absurd and focus on the proven.
                   
                  I really hope this doctor has found something here.....something that will help people. I think everyone feels that way. But when you are dealing with people who are desperate to save their babies, their children, you have to be on your guard. There are alot of people preying on parents of autistic children and if they are the genuine article, they'll understand our initial suspicion. If this guy really has discovered something I'll be the first in line to eat my words. Until then, I'm sticking to what works.
                   
                  Forever Grateful to You All,
                  Maggie
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   

                  --- On Tue, 10/14/08, Lisa Largey <l.largey@...> wrote:

                  From: Lisa Largey <l.largey@...>
                  Subject: Re: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Let's stop gyrating...
                  To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 2:50 PM

                  I was not reffering to your post Liz..no worries
                   
                  I support Dr Moulden and am working with him.
                  I just got the feeling Andy's tone in his post seemed angry
                  I dont really think autism is caused by any " one thing "
                  I dont think all autistic children are mercury toxic or that
                  mercury causes all cases of autism. I also dont think
                  chelation heals all children. But I do believe in Andys protocol
                  I think turning your back on another opinion is silly as all
                  children are different and there is more than one factor
                  playing into an autistic childs behaviors. But then again I am
                  just an observing parent of my autistic child. No degree..I know
                  Dr Moulden is not saying what we are doing is wrong or
                  that we shouldn't be doing what we are doing. I dont really understand
                  when something comes up that doesnt fit in A-M box of " beliefs"
                  it gets defensive and negative. There is always room for
                  learning new things. Dr Moulden is trying to help these
                  children and it bothers me that he is getting bashed like this.
                  While I  do often look for Andys knowledge and opinions, this time
                  I do feel that his opinion is a bit black and white..basically saying
                  Dr Moulden is wrong in a very strong message that is trying
                  to sway parents away. I dont ever like to see someone try to
                  shut the doors like that unless it could potentially be dangerous
                  or unsafe. Which is not the case here. This man is working his butt
                  off to help these kids. Just like Andy. They have differences of
                  opinions obviously but trying to discredit Moulden seems unfare
                  and a bit unjust. And I dont really care if people get mad and think
                  I am a bitch for saying any of this. The AC protocol is great and
                  we are seeing some good gains but this group at times, really pisses
                  me off. So be it

                  Lisa


                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                  ------------------------------------

                  =======================================================
                  Statements posted on this list are for information only,
                  and should NOT be taken as medical advice. If you need
                  medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
                  authorized to give medical advice: doctors.

                  Post message: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
                  Subscribe: Autism-Mercury-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Unsubscribe: Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Shortcut URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury
                  Answers to common questions:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/Mercury-Autism%20FAQYahoo!
                  Groups Links








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Elizabeth Brandegee
                  Thank you Lisa and I agree with you, and understand your feelings & point of view Maggie. You have been through a lot and should be careful, while hopefully
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
                    Thank you Lisa and I agree with you, and understand your feelings &
                    point of view Maggie. You have been through a lot and should be
                    careful, while hopefully keeping an open mind :) I don't personally
                    feel anyone has 100% of the answers alone, but that some have key
                    knowledge and solutions - Dr. Moulden would agree with that I'm
                    sure. There is no need to overly judge and criticize anyone right
                    off the bat who is legit and has the heart in this work. Some things
                    need opportunity enough to be understood more before being embraced.
                    I certainly know how it feels before others understand as a homeopath.
                    Liz


                    --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Maggie O'rourke
                    <maggie_orourke@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Lisa, I would never presume to call you a bitch because you speak
                    your mind.. I believe that's what Andy was doing as well. Despite
                    popular belief I think this board does encourage independent thought,
                    but you had better have some evidence to back up any claims you make.
                    That's simply what we are asking of this doctor.In the last few days
                    I have seen the boards that I belong to blow up over this issue,
                    mostly by people who are excited about this doctor. Every other post
                    is about how brilliant his theory is, how this will change
                    everything, how kind this doctor is. My question is this: what does
                    this mean to our kids?
                    >  
                    > I have seen no posts from parents using any protocol by this
                    doctor, no ideas on how to treat these "strokes", no earth shattering
                    new ideas on protocols....nothing. What I have seen is talk about
                    suing vaccine manufacturers, anger, talk about giving this guy all
                    the money from Autism Speaks, and a beloved member of this board
                    being slandered and accused of being Autism Diva.
                    >  
                    > I love this board. Let me repeat, I LOVE THIS BOARD! A year ago I
                    started treating my son biomedically based on a DAN doctor's
                    findings. When I ran out of money, I though it was hopeless, that I'd
                    never be able to chelate him or help repair him. I was at my lowest
                    point. I found this board and the people on it helped me realize I
                    could help my son myself. I still remember telling my husband
                    about "this yahoo group that says we can help Dylan ourselves!" And
                    that's exactly what we did. Andy's posts, as well as countless others
                    (Rebecca, Jada, Linda, Linda J, Dana, and more) have literally kept
                    me together. Today my non-verbal son talks, understands what I say to
                    him, and is on his way to recovery.
                    >  
                    > This board is protective of it's members. Every now and again
                    someone comes on and claims to have the secret recipe of hebs and
                    spices to cure our kids and they are met with people demanding proof.
                    Usually they dissapear rather quickly. I love that part of this
                    group, because believe me, there are times I could easily have been
                    tricked into doing all sorts of crazy things.....I have felt so
                    deperate.   This group helps to weed out the absurd and focus on the
                    proven.
                    >  
                    > I really hope this doctor has found something here.....something
                    that will help people. I think everyone feels that way. But when you
                    are dealing with people who are desperate to save their babies, their
                    children, you have to be on your guard. There are alot of people
                    preying on parents of autistic children and if they are the genuine
                    article, they'll understand our initial suspicion. If this guy really
                    has discovered something I'll be the first in line to eat my words.
                    Until then, I'm sticking to what works.
                    >  
                    > Forever Grateful to You All,
                    > Maggie
                    >  
                    >  
                    >  
                    >  
                    >  
                    >  
                    >
                    > --- On Tue, 10/14/08, Lisa Largey <l.largey@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Lisa Largey <l.largey@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Let's stop gyrating...
                    > To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 2:50 PM
                    >
                    > I was not reffering to your post Liz..no worries
                    >  
                    > I support Dr Moulden and am working with him.
                    > I just got the feeling Andy's tone in his post seemed angry
                    > I dont really think autism is caused by any " one thing "
                    > I dont think all autistic children are mercury toxic or that
                    > mercury causes all cases of autism. I also dont think
                    > chelation heals all children. But I do believe in Andys protocol
                    > I think turning your back on another opinion is silly as all
                    > children are different and there is more than one factor
                    > playing into an autistic childs behaviors. But then again I am
                    > just an observing parent of my autistic child. No degree..I know
                    > Dr Moulden is not saying what we are doing is wrong or
                    > that we shouldn't be doing what we are doing. I dont really
                    understand
                    > when something comes up that doesnt fit in A-M box of " beliefs"
                    > it gets defensive and negative. There is always room for
                    > learning new things. Dr Moulden is trying to help these
                    > children and it bothers me that he is getting bashed like this.
                    > While I  do often look for Andys knowledge and opinions, this time
                    > I do feel that his opinion is a bit black and white..basically
                    saying
                    > Dr Moulden is wrong in a very strong message that is trying
                    > to sway parents away. I dont ever like to see someone try to
                    > shut the doors like that unless it could potentially be dangerous
                    > or unsafe. Which is not the case here. This man is working his butt
                    > off to help these kids. Just like Andy. They have differences of
                    > opinions obviously but trying to discredit Moulden seems unfare
                    > and a bit unjust. And I dont really care if people get mad and think
                    > I am a bitch for saying any of this. The AC protocol is great and
                    > we are seeing some good gains but this group at times, really pisses
                    > me off. So be it
                    >
                    > Lisa
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > =======================================================
                    > Statements posted on this list are for information only,
                    > and should NOT be taken as medical advice. If you need
                    > medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
                    > authorized to give medical advice: doctors.
                    >
                    > Post message: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subscribe: Autism-Mercury-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Unsubscribe: Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Shortcut URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury
                    > Answers to common questions:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/files/Mercury-Autism%
                    20FAQYahoo!
                    > Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • keigh_ca
                    What is interesting to me is how describes these micro vascular strokes . It all sounds like autoimmunity which I think we all agree that autism falls in the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
                      What is interesting to me is how describes these "micro vascular
                      strokes". It all sounds like autoimmunity which I think we all agree
                      that autism falls in the category of autoimmune disorders. I think all
                      the hype is about the term stroke but yet when I google micro vascular
                      strokes or try and look it up on the national library of medicine I
                      come up with few references. Sounds like it is something visible in
                      the eye, related to diabetes and strokes. There were some references
                      to the kidneys. But as a whole.. maybe Andy could tell us, is this a
                      very common medical term? It sounds like a bit of spin doctoring to me.
                      Another point is this service we are all signing up for. I haven't
                      email confirmation of my registration. He is running for office. I
                      think we need to consider the idea that he might just be gathering
                      signatures.
                      Kes

                      --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "andrewhallcutler"
                      <AndyCutler@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Apparently another nutter has DISCOVERED THE CAUSE FOR AUTISM!!!!!!
                      and that it is all
                      > being hidden by CONSPIRACIES!!!!!!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > In my personal (though carefully considered) opinion, microstrokes
                      caused by vaccines or
                      > any other insult are likely to be relevant in very few, if any,
                      autistic children.
                      >
                      > I have actually reviewed cases of autistic children who did have
                      strokes and other brain
                      > damage that mainstream medical sources agreed was there.
                      >
                      > I've reviewed cases of adults with assorted brain injuries as well.
                      >
                      > These do not add up to the deficits seen in autism.
                      >
                      > There actually IS a known syndrome in adults of many small strokes
                      (multi-infarct
                      > dementia) and I have run across this. I do not believe autistic
                      children have it as a rule,
                      > however I will point out that the accepted - and effective -
                      treatment for it is Cavinton,
                      > which is a drug in most of the world but is a nutritional supplement
                      in the United States
                      > and is sold under the name Vinpocetine. It is very effective in
                      ameliorating the symptoms
                      > of multi-infarct dementia. It is not particularly expensive, it is
                      pretty safe, and it is
                      > discussed in my book Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment. (
                      www.noamalgam.com )
                      >
                      > I would appreciate it if we could stick to civil discourse in which
                      it is accepted that
                      > reasonable people may differ in opinion, and that everyone really is
                      here to try to help
                      > even if they don't all immediately recognize the UNRECOGNIZED GENIUS
                      of someone who
                      > DISCOVERS THE HIDDEN TRUTH!!!!!! only to be suppressed by EVIL
                      CONSPIRACIES!!!!!
                      >
                      > I'm actually surprised anyone who reads the microvascular stroke
                      websites can take them
                      > seriously given the atmospherics. Personally I do pore over this
                      kind of thing anyway
                      > because it is surprising where insights and discoveries can pop up -
                      but this is not THE
                      > cause of autism, or even a very common contributor to it, if it has
                      relevance at all.
                      >
                      > Andy
                      >
                    • Jan
                      I think Andy gave us some insight, if we can weed it out of all the hubub going on. He said that this might apply to a few children, but not all and not the
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
                        I think Andy gave us some insight, if we can weed it out of all the
                        hubub going on. He said that this might apply to a few children, but
                        not all and not the majority and that vinpocetine is what would be
                        used to treat it. So that's a good note, for the few children who may
                        or have this damage. I think all our children have brain damage to
                        some degree, as do us adults. Mercury causes a syndrome known as
                        "minimal brain damage syndrome". This can be in varying degrees..and
                        anyway...
                        Andy's give his opinion, and provided us with some advice about this
                        type of condition.
                        Now we can wait and see how some of the people on the board fare with
                        Dr. Moulden and what progress they make. Actions speak loudest, and
                        results will speak loudly as well. Keep us posted and let us know how
                        you all do.

                        --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "keigh_ca" <keigh_ca@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > What is interesting to me is how describes these "micro vascular
                        > strokes". It all sounds like autoimmunity which I think we all agree
                        > that autism falls in the category of autoimmune disorders. I think all
                        > the hype is about the term stroke but yet when I google micro vascular
                        > strokes or try and look it up on the national library of medicine I
                        > come up with few references. Sounds like it is something visible in
                        > the eye, related to diabetes and strokes. There were some references
                        > to the kidneys. But as a whole.. maybe Andy could tell us, is this a
                        > very common medical term? It sounds like a bit of spin doctoring to me.
                        > Another point is this service we are all signing up for. I haven't
                        > email confirmation of my registration. He is running for office. I
                        > think we need to consider the idea that he might just be gathering
                        > signatures.
                        > Kes
                        >
                        > --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "andrewhallcutler"
                        > <AndyCutler@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Apparently another nutter has DISCOVERED THE CAUSE FOR AUTISM!!!!!!
                        > and that it is all
                        > > being hidden by CONSPIRACIES!!!!!!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > In my personal (though carefully considered) opinion, microstrokes
                        > caused by vaccines or
                        > > any other insult are likely to be relevant in very few, if any,
                        > autistic children.
                        > >
                        > > I have actually reviewed cases of autistic children who did have
                        > strokes and other brain
                        > > damage that mainstream medical sources agreed was there.
                        > >
                        > > I've reviewed cases of adults with assorted brain injuries as well.
                        > >
                        > > These do not add up to the deficits seen in autism.
                        > >
                        > > There actually IS a known syndrome in adults of many small strokes
                        > (multi-infarct
                        > > dementia) and I have run across this. I do not believe autistic
                        > children have it as a rule,
                        > > however I will point out that the accepted - and effective -
                        > treatment for it is Cavinton,
                        > > which is a drug in most of the world but is a nutritional supplement
                        > in the United States
                        > > and is sold under the name Vinpocetine. It is very effective in
                        > ameliorating the symptoms
                        > > of multi-infarct dementia. It is not particularly expensive, it is
                        > pretty safe, and it is
                        > > discussed in my book Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment. (
                        > www.noamalgam.com )
                        > >
                        > > I would appreciate it if we could stick to civil discourse in which
                        > it is accepted that
                        > > reasonable people may differ in opinion, and that everyone really is
                        > here to try to help
                        > > even if they don't all immediately recognize the UNRECOGNIZED GENIUS
                        > of someone who
                        > > DISCOVERS THE HIDDEN TRUTH!!!!!! only to be suppressed by EVIL
                        > CONSPIRACIES!!!!!
                        > >
                        > > I'm actually surprised anyone who reads the microvascular stroke
                        > websites can take them
                        > > seriously given the atmospherics. Personally I do pore over this
                        > kind of thing anyway
                        > > because it is surprising where insights and discoveries can pop up -
                        > but this is not THE
                        > > cause of autism, or even a very common contributor to it, if it has
                        > relevance at all.
                        > >
                        > > Andy
                        > >
                        >
                      • andrewhallcutler
                        ... If you re a bitch for speaking your mind you and I can form the bitch club and be bitches together ;-) but let s not try to take it out on each other any
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
                          --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Maggie O'rourke <maggie_orourke@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Lisa, I would never presume to call you a bitch because you speak your mind..

                          If you're a bitch for speaking your mind you and I can form "the bitch club" and be bitches
                          together ;-) but let's not try to take it out on each other any more than necessary.

                          It's nice when we can manage to speak our minds politely, and when that works, but often
                          it isn't practical or effective. Telling the truth as you see it is what is important on this list.

                          Andy
                        • Ladyshrink111@peoplepc.com
                          ... From: Maggie O rourke Lisa, I would never presume to call you a bitch because you speak your mind === Me either, I like Lisa. She is a committed Mom who
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Maggie O'rourke




                            Lisa, I would never presume to call you a bitch because you speak your mind

                            ===>Me either, I like Lisa. She is a committed Mom who works very hard to help her son, I always like that. :-)====>



                            Despite popular belief I think this board does encourage independent thought, but you had ** better have some evidence to back up any claims you make.**



                            ===>EXACTLY the point, on the mark. There is a *huge* difference between having a closed mind and requiring someone to back up what they say and when they can't back it up, asking them to back down.

                            There are lots of lists where you can say anything and most people will agree with you and give you lots of "atta girls" even if they think what you are going to do will not help or likely hurt your kid. I don't think this is kind, but lots of people disagree with me.

                            I've seen that done on this list also. What makes people do that? Lack of moral courage and the fear they will be thought rude, and not wanting to explain over and over again why something won't work or why it will hurt.

                            We're lucky on this list to have a whole host of people who do know when something is bogus; Linda J., Mark Schauss and Andy, among others. And they never worry about what people think, they focus on the kids and what will help.

                            Frankly and at the risk of being called rude again, people need to grow up and quit worrying about getting their feelings hurt or not being agreed with at the expense of doing something not useful or harmful with their kid. Really, which is more important?

                            I know this is a long process, that can't be helped and I wish something would come along to shorten it, but it hasn't. ===>



                            I love this board. Let me repeat, I LOVE THIS BOARD! Today my non-verbal son talks, understands what I say to him, and is on his way to recovery.

                            ===>Mostly because you were willing to listen and apply the treatment. Wonderful, Maggie, so happy for you and your family.===>

                            This group helps to weed out the absurd and focus on the proven.

                            ===>Wonderful post, Maggie, very articulate.===>

                            Rebecca














                            --- On Tue, 10/14/08, Lisa Largey <l.largey@...> wrote:

                            From: Lisa Largey <l.largey@...>
                            Subject: Re: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Let's stop gyrating...
                            To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 2:50 PM

                            I was not reffering to your post Liz..no worries

                            I support Dr Moulden and am working with him.
                            I just got the feeling Andy's tone in his post seemed angry
                            I dont really think autism is caused by any " one thing "
                            I dont think all autistic children are mercury toxic or that
                            mercury causes all cases of autism. I also dont think
                            chelation heals all children. But I do believe in Andys protocol
                            I think turning your back on another opinion is silly as all
                            children are different and there is more than one factor
                            playing into an autistic childs behaviors. But then again I am
                            just an observing parent of my autistic child. No degree..I know
                            Dr Moulden is not saying what we are doing is wrong or
                            that we shouldn't be doing what we are doing. I dont really understand
                            when something comes up that doesnt fit in A-M box of " beliefs"
                            it gets defensive and negative. There is always room for
                            learning new things. Dr Moulden is trying to help these
                            children and it bothers me that he is getting bashed like this.
                            While I do often look for Andys knowledge and opinions, this time
                            I do feel that his opinion is a bit black and white..basically saying
                            Dr Moulden is wrong in a very strong message that is trying
                            to sway parents away. I dont ever like to see someone try to
                            shut the doors like that unless it could potentially be dangerous
                            or unsafe. Which is not the case here. This man is working his butt
                            off to help these kids. Just like Andy. They have differences of
                            opinions obviously but trying to discredit Moulden seems unfare
                            and a bit unjust. And I dont really care if people get mad and think
                            I am a bitch for saying any of this. The AC protocol is great and
                            we are seeing some good gains but this group at times, really pisses
                            me off. So be it

                            Lisa

                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                            >

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