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  • Christian Gelszus
    Greetings to the list, as a new subscriber please allow me to introduce myself in a few words. My SCA persona is William of Llanwarne, a bowyer from
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 29, 2001
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      Greetings to the list,

      as a new subscriber please allow me to introduce myself in a few words. My
      SCA persona is William of Llanwarne, a bowyer from Herfordshire living in
      the mid-14th century. I'm seneschal of the incipient shire of Two Seas, a
      new group in central Drachenwald (mundanely: Hamburg, Germany) I have helped
      founding ath the beginning of this year. My interest center around archery,
      working with wood and leather, and - to a lesser extend - armoured combat.
      As there is quite a number of "real" reenactment groups in our area (which
      of course dispise us ;o) ) I'd like to establish a decent standard within my
      group. However, it seems like some shire members start to feel comfortable
      at a fantasy-based low-quality level. Therefore I'm hunting for new ideas to
      get them going. :o)

      In service,

      William





      Ld. William of Llanwarne
      (mka Christian Gelszus)
      Seneschal, Inc. Shire of Two Seas, Drachenwald

      cgelszus@...
      http://members.tripod.de/TwoSeas_Hamburg/index.html
    • rowengr@hotmail.com
      ... words. My ... living in the mid-14th century. Welcome to the group, my lord. ... comfortable ... That s a very admirable ambition. 8-) Feel free to ask
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 29, 2001
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Christian Gelszus" <cgelszus@g...> wrote:
        > Greetings to the list,
        >
        > as a new subscriber please allow me to introduce myself in a few
        words. My
        > SCA persona is William of Llanwarne, a bowyer from Herfordshire
        living in the mid-14th century.

        Welcome to the group, my lord.

        > I'd like to establish a decent standard within my
        > group. However, it seems like some shire members start to feel
        comfortable
        > at a fantasy-based low-quality level. Therefore I'm hunting for new
        >ideas to get them going. :o)

        That's a very admirable ambition. 8-) Feel free to ask all the
        questions you like, and please let us know about things which *you*
        may know that we don't - we seem to learn a lot from each other here.

        And we're just *full* of opinions. ;)

        Here's a good site for accurate, easy to make garb, which some of
        your folk may find useful:

        http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/


        In general, this list seems to quiet down in the late afternoon (US
        eastern seaboard five-ish,) and be quieter over the weekends, but
        there's a good bit of traffic the rest of the time.

        Glad to have you "aboard."

        Rowen Brithwallt
      • s_krasley@recordtrak.com
        GREETINGS AND WELCOME It s always nice to hear from a new voice. You seem to have run into the same sort of problem we do here in the US. New members
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 2 6:36 AM
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          GREETINGS AND WELCOME

          It's always nice to hear from a new voice.
          You seem to have run into the same sort of problem we do here in the
          US. New members especailly want to do the D&D or Renn Faire attire.
          The best thing you can do is ask or require them to have the same
          basic garb. Ie: a tunic. A group I belong to in another orginization
          I give them a print out of here is what you want to make. I try also
          to hold garb workshops, where we go fabric shopping then make the
          tunic. At least this way I know they've been told what is expected
          and have at least one outfit that is exceptable. If they start to
          deviate from "MY" vision of what is acceptable, they have to listen
          to me lecture them or the virtues of linen and wool.
          If they really want to continue in the fantasy theme, then maybe they
          need to form another group.

          - Brynn

          "Christian Gelszus" <cgelszus@g...> wrote:
          > Greetings to the list,
          >
          > as a new subscriber please allow me to introduce myself in a few
          words. My
          > SCA persona is William of Llanwarne, a bowyer from Herfordshire
          living in
          > the mid-14th century. I'm seneschal of the incipient shire of Two
          Seas, a
          > new group in central Drachenwald (mundanely: Hamburg, Germany) I
          have helped
          > founding ath the beginning of this year. My interest center around
          archery,
          > working with wood and leather, and - to a lesser extend - armoured
          combat.
          > As there is quite a number of "real" reenactment groups in our area
          (which
          > of course dispise us ;o) ) I'd like to establish a decent standard
          within my
          > group. However, it seems like some shire members start to feel
          comfortable
          > at a fantasy-based low-quality level. Therefore I'm hunting for new
          ideas to
          > get them going. :o)
          >
          > In service,
          >
          > William
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Ld. William of Llanwarne
          > (mka Christian Gelszus)
          > Seneschal, Inc. Shire of Two Seas, Drachenwald
          >
          > cgelszus@g...
          > http://members.tripod.de/TwoSeas_Hamburg/index.html
        • wodeford@yahoo.com
          Jehanne de Wodeford of Rusted Woodlands sends greetings to her countryman, William of Llanwarne. Welcome to the madhouse that is our list. Yes, you will find
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 2 7:01 AM
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            Jehanne de Wodeford of Rusted Woodlands sends greetings to her
            countryman, William of Llanwarne. Welcome to the madhouse that is our
            list.

            Yes, you will find that the SCA does attract the fantasy fan element.
            You may be able to show some of them that the pursuit of more
            authentic activities is worthwhile, however, you WILL encounter the
            ones who will accuse you of spoiling their fun because all they want
            out of the SCA is a chance to dress up in sparkly costumes and hang
            out with their friends. Try not to let them discourage you. The SCA
            is different things to different people.

            Best of luck in your efforts for your new group.

            Jehanne
          • Christian Gelszus
            Greetings and thanks to everyone for your kind words. ... From: s_krasley@recordtrak.com [mailto:s_krasley@recordtrak.com] The best thing you can do is ask or
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 2 7:47 AM
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              Greetings and thanks to everyone for your kind words.
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: s_krasley@... [mailto:s_krasley@...]
              The best thing you can do is ask or require them to have the same
              basic garb. Ie: a tunic. A group I belong to in another orginization
              I give them a print out of here is what you want to make. I try also
              to hold garb workshops, where we go fabric shopping then make the
              tunic. At least this way I know they've been told what is expected
              and have at least one outfit that is exceptable. 
               
              Not a bad idea, but what you get by doing this is a lot of people wearing "basich medieval style" garb. ;o) Interestingly, the majority of my group has focused on the 14th century. So a standard tunic is not the best option. And think about legwear! I always try to convince that braies add to attractivity (sexy legs! ;o) ), but there's still a long way to go. At least most of them will have made their own turnshoes by the end of the year. Also I'm lucky enough to have at least one good example as one of our newbies has done marvellous garb. I could kill him for his cotehardie and hat ... ;o)
               
              However, your post has made me think about putting something together for a leaflet about "A 14th century set of clothes for the beginning SCAdian". Earlier periods seem to be covered pretty intensively (there's lots of viking and high medieval style stuff available here) as well as the 15th century. Time inbetween however has not been treated in the same manner. So if anybody has hints, tips or materials I could base my work upon - just let me know! :o)
               
              In service,
               
              Will
               
               

              Ld. William of Llanwarne
              (mka Christian Gelszus)
              Inc. Shire of Two Seas, Drachenwald

              cgelszus@...
              http://members.tripod.de/TwoSeas_Hamburg/index.html

            • Steven Proctor
              ... Sounds like you re coming along nicely there. Keep up the good work! ... Actually, I m currently writing (in a rather dilettantish fashion, as my time
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 2 8:50 AM
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                Steven Proctor wrote:

                > --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., "Christian Gelszus" <cgelszus@g...> wrote:
                > Greetings and thanks to everyone for your kind words.
                >
                > Not a bad idea, but what you get by doing this is a lot of people
                > wearing "basich medieval style" garb. ;o) Interestingly, the majority of
                > my
                > group has focused on the 14th century. So a standard tunic is not the
                > best
                > option. And think about legwear! I always try to convince that braies
                > add to
                > attractivity (sexy legs! ;o) ), but there's still a long way to go. At
                > least most of them will have made their own turnshoes by the end of the
                > year. Also I'm lucky enough to have at least one good example as one of
                > our
                > newbies has done marvellous garb. I could kill him for his cotehardie
                > and hat ...
                > ;o)

                Sounds like you're coming along nicely there. Keep up the good work!

                > However, your post has made me think about putting something together
                > for a leaflet about "A 14th century set of clothes for the beginning
                > SCAdian". Earlier periods seem to be covered pretty intensively (there's
                > lots of
                > viking and high medieval style stuff available here) as well as the
                > 15th century. Time inbetween however has not been treated in the same
                > manner. So if anybody has hints, tips or materials I could base my work
                > upon -
                > just let me know! :o)

                Actually, I'm currently writing (in a rather dilettantish fashion, as my
                time allows) an article for members (now and future) of my household on
                something close to that matter. we're in 1401 at the moment, so it's maybe
                a bit later that you really are looking for, but still, it might help. I'm
                including in it manuscript evidence of clothing as much as I can, working
                out of some of the facsimile mss. in my collection. It's still incomplete,
                but when done I will be putting it up on the web. I'll let you know. If
                you *really* want, I s'pose I could send you the incomplete...

                My best suggestion to you at that look through manuscripts. There's a lot
                of available resource material out there in that vein. I'd also recommend
                a look through
                http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/bockhome.html
                Which has a lot of good information on extant garments for the period
                you're looking at.

                Best of luck!

                Ta

                Morgan

                Rain -- violent torrents of it, rain like fetid water from a God-sized pot
                of pasta strained through a sky-wide colander, rain as Noah knew it,
                flaying the shuddering trees, whipping the whitecapped waters, violating
                the sodden firmament, purging purity and filth alike from the land, rain
                without mercy, without surcease, incontinent rain, turning to intermittent
                showers overnight with partial clearing Tuesday.
              • Marianne Perdomo Machin
                Hi Christian! Good to see you here! This is Marianne, from the Canaries, fighting for the yet-not-quite materialized shire... I see you re doing well and hope
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 2 9:03 AM
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                  Hi Christian!

                  Good to see you here! This is Marianne, from the Canaries, fighting for
                  the yet-not-quite materialized shire... I see you're doing well and hope
                  of doing better! : )


                  > And think about legwear! I always try to convince that braies add to attractivity (sexy legs! ;o) ), but there's still a long way to go.
                  >
                  Can you get women to say so? It might be more convincing for some... ; )

                  > However, your post has made me think about putting something together
                  > for a leaflet about "A 14th century set of clothes for the beginning
                  > SCAdian".

                  Excellent idea! I think it's the only way to fight back the "here, just
                  make this generic tunic, it's easy enough for a newbie like you"
                  attitude.
                  Do you know the Edinburgh group? I started there and they used to do
                  costume workshops in which (authentically-dressed members) would do a
                  tiny fashion show, lets us browse through good costume books (on loan
                  from the local libraries) and warn us about bad, re-drawn books. I think
                  it really got people on the right track (or maybe it just scared all the
                  strictly-phantasy types away...). It worked for me! My first underdress
                  is still something I'm proud to wear. : )

                  > Earlier periods seem to be covered pretty intensively (there's lots of
                  > viking and high medieval style stuff available here) as well as the
                  > 15th century.

                  Oooh... :) Like you, I'm trying to steer people towards a particular
                  period (we have a big templar fan, so I count him as lost for this
                  purpose, but the rest seem to agree). In our case it's late 15th c. ...
                  do you have a particular site in mind?
                  I know there are several that are useful: Cynthia Virtue's, Kass' and a
                  bunch of others have excellent practical articles and the one from the
                  Company of St. George is also good for an overview... But is there
                  anything like a comprehensive guide to 15th c. costume that you know of?
                  I'd like to do a compilation on 15th c. life, including costume, with
                  small introductory paragraphs, then suggesting websites, books, etc...

                  What sort of info are you missing for your 14th c. guide? You do know
                  the sites I mentioned, right? The first two are probably useful for 14th
                  c. too.


                  All the best,

                  Marianne /Leonor
                • rowengr@hotmail.com
                  ... Sounds like a lovely group. There s a good chance I may find myself in Edinburgh this fall (no exact date) - is there anyone there who you think
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 2 11:00 AM
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                    --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., Marianne Perdomo Machin <marianne@c...>
                    wrote:
                    > Do you know the Edinburgh group? I started there and they used to do
                    > costume workshops in which (authentically-dressed members) would do
                    >a tiny fashion show, lets us browse through good costume books (on
                    >loan from the local libraries) and warn us about bad, re-drawn books.
                    >I think it really got people on the right track
                    <snip>

                    Sounds like a lovely group. There's a good chance I may find myself
                    in Edinburgh this fall (no exact date) - is there anyone there who you
                    think like might like to touch bases with other SCA-folk if we find
                    ourselves with a bit of free time?

                    Rowen
                  • Sunny Medlock
                    ... Ooh! Ooh! I know someone! Wolfgang Adolphus Jager (I m sure I spelled his name wrong). He s way cool, and has the coolest garb. I first met him at
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 2 2:14 PM
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                      >--- In Authentic_SCA@y..., Marianne Perdomo Machin <marianne@c...>
                      >wrote:
                      >> Do you know the Edinburgh group? I started there and they used to do
                      >> costume workshops in which (authentically-dressed members) would do
                      >>a tiny fashion show, lets us browse through good costume books (on
                      >>loan from the local libraries) and warn us about bad, re-drawn books.
                      >>I think it really got people on the right track
                      ><snip>
                      >
                      >Sounds like a lovely group. There's a good chance I may find myself
                      >in Edinburgh this fall (no exact date) - is there anyone there who you
                      >think like might like to touch bases with other SCA-folk if we find
                      >ourselves with a bit of free time?
                      >
                      >Rowen

                      Ooh! Ooh! I know someone! Wolfgang Adolphus Jager (I'm sure I spelled his
                      name wrong). He's way cool, and has the coolest garb. I first met him at
                      Kingdom University where I asked him if I could use him as an example for
                      his tights. They were great :) and convinced a friend that real, period
                      tights could be cool and manly. He's also got at pourpoint that I have
                      been dying to make. It's styled after Charles du Blois. He was the first
                      person I ever met that did really authentic stuff and was very inspiring.
                      You definately have to meet him (I think he's the seneshal there)

                      Elisabetta
                    • rowengr@hotmail.com
                      ... spelled his ... him at ... example for ... period ... have ... first ... inspiring. ... Thanks - sounds like a fine gentleman. I ve also been poking
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jul 2 3:17 PM
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                        --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., Sunny Medlock <sunnyday@m...> wrote:
                        > Ooh! Ooh! I know someone! Wolfgang Adolphus Jager (I'm sure I
                        spelled his
                        > name wrong). He's way cool, and has the coolest garb. I first met
                        him at
                        > Kingdom University where I asked him if I could use him as an
                        example for
                        > his tights. They were great :) and convinced a friend that real,
                        period
                        > tights could be cool and manly. He's also got at pourpoint that I
                        have
                        > been dying to make. It's styled after Charles du Blois. He was the
                        first
                        > person I ever met that did really authentic stuff and was very
                        inspiring.
                        > You definately have to meet him (I think he's the seneshal there)
                        >
                        > Elisabetta

                        Thanks - sounds like a fine gentleman. I've also been poking around
                        the Drachenwald website & found the group's web page (which had many
                        good links.)

                        Rowen
                      • Marianne Perdomo Machin
                        ... Probably. They tend to have regular dance and fighting practices. Unless they have changed their schedule, they do dance on Fridays and fighting on
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jul 3 3:13 AM
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                          rowengr@... wrote:

                          > Sounds like a lovely group. There's a good chance I may find myself
                          > in Edinburgh this fall (no exact date) - is there anyone there who you
                          > think like might like to touch bases with other SCA-folk if we find
                          > ourselves with a bit of free time?

                          Probably. They tend to have regular dance and fighting practices. Unless they
                          have changed their schedule, they do dance on Fridays and fighting on
                          Sundays. I'm not sure how many other meetings they have, as they're quite a
                          small group and tend to do things at people's houses and such.
                          If you like dancing or music it's a great place to go, cozy and small but
                          with good stuff. Mistress Caitlin and Otto (sorry, don't know what titles he
                          has, probably Master) have constructed a number of period instruments and
                          play things like cantigas on their violas (built from kits). They also do a
                          lot of period dancing: with, probably, 15th c. Italian being predominant.
                          Since I learnt to dance there and have had little contact with other groups I
                          have never even seen Hole in the Wall and other way-put-of-period, though
                          they do dance the SCA inventions. If you like more modern dancing there are
                          usually dancing ceilidhs you can go to, so it's not like you can't do them
                          over there.
                          And yes, they have great garb. Even great loaner garb.
                          They also have a great way of showing how 15th c. chemise construction goes
                          (the type of construction Kass shows in her page). They do a little paper
                          model, cutting all the pieces and putting them together with cello tape as if
                          you were sewing it. It really helped me visualize the shape and how it was
                          meant to look in the end.

                          What I'd do is check out their webpage and write to whoever is now the
                          contact person and let them know when you're going there and that ypu're
                          interested in meeting them and attending something.

                          I've been wanting to visit them for some time now but the stupid airlines
                          just aren't cooperating... Why can't we have affordable teletransportation?
                          :)


                          Marianne
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