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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Ethnic Medieval Music

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  • Kass McGann
    Dear Lady Teleri, My Lord is mundanely a medieval musicologist and I will forward this email to him. He should respond to you within a week. In your service,
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 3, 2000
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      Dear Lady Teleri,

      My Lord is mundanely a medieval musicologist and I will forward this email
      to him. He should respond to you within a week.

      In your service,
      Caisin nic Annaidh
      aka Kass McGann


      > I have been researching and singing Medieval and Renaissance music
      > for a while now and was wondering if any one could help me with
      > sources. I am specifically interested in finding out more about
      > Jewish, Muslim or other non-Christian festival music. I have found
      > modern editions of a couple of 15th century Ladino folk ballads, but
      > that's the closest so far. All of the Purim songs I have come across
      > are "traditional" and probably not much older than 1900. Looking at
      > the posts on the list so far, I was hoping there might be people here
      > with some expertise who could help me out.
      >
      > Yours in Service,
      > Lady Teleri
    • Stephen Higa
      He s a medieval musicologist?? Wow! I have some friends into medieval North African music. I ll forward your message to them, too. My suggestion: find the
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 3, 2000
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        He's a medieval musicologist?? Wow!

        I have some friends into medieval North African music. I'll forward your
        message to them, too.

        My suggestion: find the period texts, find out all you can about the music
        that would've been associated with it (particularly rhythm, modes, theory,
        etc.), listen to the modern traditions, and formulate a melody for the text
        based on that knowledge. Of course, the modern "Andalusian" musical
        tradition in North Africa claims unbroken continuity with the medieval
        Arabo-Andalusian tradition, and those Ladino songs also seem to have
        unbroken links to 15th c. Spain, but since we can't be sure, it might be the
        better bet to create melodies anew using the documentably medieval text. My
        current project is an 11th/12th c. Hebrew muwashshah, and in the past I've
        done the same with Beowulf. The medieval music ensemble Altramar (whom I've
        linked in the "Links" section) also does this.

        e sirviessen a vos,
        Moshe Mantega
        --------------------------
        Todo callado, todo 'stava'n silencio,
        Como la nuve'n a la escuridad.
        "Miseravle! Porqué vienes agora
        Arecordarme del mal que yo pasí,
        Arecordarme de toda la mi vida?"
        --anon. sefardí

        ----------
        >From: "Kass McGann" <historian@...>
        >To: <Authentic_SCA@egroups.com>
        >Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Ethnic Medieval Music
        >Date: Fri, Nov 3, 2000, 9:36 AM
        >

        > Dear Lady Teleri,
        >
        > My Lord is mundanely a medieval musicologist and I will forward this email
        > to him. He should respond to you within a week.
        >
        > In your service,
        > Caisin nic Annaidh
        > aka Kass McGann
        >
        >
        >> I have been researching and singing Medieval and Renaissance music
        >> for a while now and was wondering if any one could help me with
        >> sources. I am specifically interested in finding out more about
        >> Jewish, Muslim or other non-Christian festival music. I have found
        >> modern editions of a couple of 15th century Ladino folk ballads, but
        >> that's the closest so far. All of the Purim songs I have come across
        >> are "traditional" and probably not much older than 1900. Looking at
        >> the posts on the list so far, I was hoping there might be people here
        >> with some expertise who could help me out.
        >>
        >> Yours in Service,
        >> Lady Teleri
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Kass McGann
        He s a medieval musicologist?? Wow! ... He doesn t actually earn his living that way, unfortunately. It was just his major in college and something he is
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 3, 2000
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          He's a medieval musicologist?? Wow!
          >>>>
          He doesn't actually earn his living that way, unfortunately. It was just
          his major in college and something he is passionate about in the SCA.

          He earns his living as the assistant brewer at a microbrewery, which isn't
          so bad either... ;)

          Kass
        • spanogle@ix.netcom.com
          What I m hoping for at this point is references to help me find the medieval and Renaissance sources of non-Christian music, if there are any. Especially
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 8, 2000
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            What I'm hoping for at this point is references to help me find the
            medieval and Renaissance sources of non-Christian music, if there are
            any. Especially helpful would be transcriptions of the medieval
            notation into modern, and transcriptions and/or translations of
            Hebrew, Arabic or Ladino texts. I'm basically hoping for something
            like what Van Der Werf did with the troubadour manuscripts, or what
            has been done for the Cantigas de Santa Maria. Since I'm just
            starting out, I don't know if that sort of scholarly material exists
            for any non-Western/Christian traditions. At this point I don't
            really even know what exists in the way of original manuscripts.

            Am I hoping for too much? Is any of this out there?

            Yours in Service,
            Teleri ferch Morgant


            --- In Authentic_SCA@egroups.com, "Stephen Higa" <mitsuo@u...> wrote:
            >
            > My suggestion: find the period texts, find out all you can about
            the music that would've been associated with it (particularly rhythm,
            modes, theory, etc.), listen to the modern traditions, and formulate
            a melody for the text based on that knowledge. Of course, the modern
            "Andalusian" musical tradition in North Africa claims unbroken
            continuity with the medieval Arabo-Andalusian tradition, and those
            Ladino songs also seem to have unbroken links to 15th c. Spain, but
            since we can't be sure, it might be the better bet to create melodies
            anew using the documentably medieval text. My current project is an
            11th/12th c. Hebrew muwashshah, and in the past I've done the same
            with Beowulf. The medieval music ensemble Altramar (whom I've linked
            in the "Links" section) also does this.
            >
            > e sirviessen a vos,
            > Moshe Mantega
          • Stephen Higa
            Unfortunately, according to my understanding, actual manuscripts are scarce or nonexistant. Of course, we sometimes get biblical cantillation symbols for
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 8, 2000
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              Unfortunately, according to my understanding, actual manuscripts are scarce
              or nonexistant. Of course, we sometimes get biblical cantillation symbols
              for medieval Jewish biblical texts, but aside from that...Occasionally the
              lyrics to songs in the modern oral traditions bear close resemblance to the
              documentably medieval texts, so some inferences can be made from that.

              Parallel Christian traditions supposed to be influenced by non-western
              musics (i.e., the Cantigas de Santa Maria, dance music, troubadour songs)
              can also provide important clues. I was looking through a book on Medieval
              Jewish music, and it provided a rare example of a documentably period Ladino
              folk song, "Ea Judios"--I played the melody from the given notation, and
              found that it bore a STRIKING resemblance to Cantiga 100, "Santa Maria
              strela do dia"...

              There's a book published by UC Berkeley I'm currently trying to find called
              "Ten Hispano-Arabic Songs in the Modern Oral Tradition" by James Monroe and
              Benjamin Liu. I've heard that this is an excellent resource for tracing
              traditional muwashshahat to their medieval roots. So that's a good book to
              try and get a hold of, if you can find it.

              en serviçio del sueño,
              Moshe Mantega
              --------------------------
              Todo callado, todo 'stava'n silencio,
              Como la nuve'n a la escuridad.
              "Miseravle! Porqué vienes agora
              Arecordarme del mal que yo pasí,
              Arecordarme de toda la mi vida?"
              --anon. sefardí

              ----------
              >From: spanogle@...
              >To: Authentic_SCA@egroups.com
              >Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Ethnic Medieval Music
              >Date: Wed, Nov 8, 2000, 10:49 AM
              >

              >
              > What I'm hoping for at this point is references to help me find the
              > medieval and Renaissance sources of non-Christian music, if there are
              > any. Especially helpful would be transcriptions of the medieval
              > notation into modern, and transcriptions and/or translations of
              > Hebrew, Arabic or Ladino texts. I'm basically hoping for something
              > like what Van Der Werf did with the troubadour manuscripts, or what
              > has been done for the Cantigas de Santa Maria. Since I'm just
              > starting out, I don't know if that sort of scholarly material exists
              > for any non-Western/Christian traditions. At this point I don't
              > really even know what exists in the way of original manuscripts.
              >
              > Am I hoping for too much? Is any of this out there?
              >
              > Yours in Service,
              > Teleri ferch Morgant
              >
              >
              > --- In Authentic_SCA@egroups.com, "Stephen Higa" <mitsuo@u...> wrote:
              >>
              >> My suggestion: find the period texts, find out all you can about
              > the music that would've been associated with it (particularly rhythm,
              > modes, theory, etc.), listen to the modern traditions, and formulate
              > a melody for the text based on that knowledge. Of course, the modern
              > "Andalusian" musical tradition in North Africa claims unbroken
              > continuity with the medieval Arabo-Andalusian tradition, and those
              > Ladino songs also seem to have unbroken links to 15th c. Spain, but
              > since we can't be sure, it might be the better bet to create melodies
              > anew using the documentably medieval text. My current project is an
              > 11th/12th c. Hebrew muwashshah, and in the past I've done the same
              > with Beowulf. The medieval music ensemble Altramar (whom I've linked
              > in the "Links" section) also does this.
              >>
              >> e sirviessen a vos,
              >> Moshe Mantega
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
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