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Ethnic Medieval Music

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  • spanogle@ix.netcom.com
    I have been researching and singing Medieval and Renaissance music for a while now and was wondering if any one could help me with sources. I am specifically
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 3, 2000
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      I have been researching and singing Medieval and Renaissance music
      for a while now and was wondering if any one could help me with
      sources. I am specifically interested in finding out more about
      Jewish, Muslim or other non-Christian festival music. I have found
      modern editions of a couple of 15th century Ladino folk ballads, but
      that's the closest so far. All of the Purim songs I have come across
      are "traditional" and probably not much older than 1900. Looking at
      the posts on the list so far, I was hoping there might be people here
      with some expertise who could help me out.

      Yours in Service,
      Lady Teleri
    • Kass McGann
      Dear Lady Teleri, My Lord is mundanely a medieval musicologist and I will forward this email to him. He should respond to you within a week. In your service,
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 3, 2000
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        Dear Lady Teleri,

        My Lord is mundanely a medieval musicologist and I will forward this email
        to him. He should respond to you within a week.

        In your service,
        Caisin nic Annaidh
        aka Kass McGann


        > I have been researching and singing Medieval and Renaissance music
        > for a while now and was wondering if any one could help me with
        > sources. I am specifically interested in finding out more about
        > Jewish, Muslim or other non-Christian festival music. I have found
        > modern editions of a couple of 15th century Ladino folk ballads, but
        > that's the closest so far. All of the Purim songs I have come across
        > are "traditional" and probably not much older than 1900. Looking at
        > the posts on the list so far, I was hoping there might be people here
        > with some expertise who could help me out.
        >
        > Yours in Service,
        > Lady Teleri
      • Stephen Higa
        He s a medieval musicologist?? Wow! I have some friends into medieval North African music. I ll forward your message to them, too. My suggestion: find the
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 3, 2000
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          He's a medieval musicologist?? Wow!

          I have some friends into medieval North African music. I'll forward your
          message to them, too.

          My suggestion: find the period texts, find out all you can about the music
          that would've been associated with it (particularly rhythm, modes, theory,
          etc.), listen to the modern traditions, and formulate a melody for the text
          based on that knowledge. Of course, the modern "Andalusian" musical
          tradition in North Africa claims unbroken continuity with the medieval
          Arabo-Andalusian tradition, and those Ladino songs also seem to have
          unbroken links to 15th c. Spain, but since we can't be sure, it might be the
          better bet to create melodies anew using the documentably medieval text. My
          current project is an 11th/12th c. Hebrew muwashshah, and in the past I've
          done the same with Beowulf. The medieval music ensemble Altramar (whom I've
          linked in the "Links" section) also does this.

          e sirviessen a vos,
          Moshe Mantega
          --------------------------
          Todo callado, todo 'stava'n silencio,
          Como la nuve'n a la escuridad.
          "Miseravle! Porqué vienes agora
          Arecordarme del mal que yo pasí,
          Arecordarme de toda la mi vida?"
          --anon. sefardí

          ----------
          >From: "Kass McGann" <historian@...>
          >To: <Authentic_SCA@egroups.com>
          >Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Ethnic Medieval Music
          >Date: Fri, Nov 3, 2000, 9:36 AM
          >

          > Dear Lady Teleri,
          >
          > My Lord is mundanely a medieval musicologist and I will forward this email
          > to him. He should respond to you within a week.
          >
          > In your service,
          > Caisin nic Annaidh
          > aka Kass McGann
          >
          >
          >> I have been researching and singing Medieval and Renaissance music
          >> for a while now and was wondering if any one could help me with
          >> sources. I am specifically interested in finding out more about
          >> Jewish, Muslim or other non-Christian festival music. I have found
          >> modern editions of a couple of 15th century Ladino folk ballads, but
          >> that's the closest so far. All of the Purim songs I have come across
          >> are "traditional" and probably not much older than 1900. Looking at
          >> the posts on the list so far, I was hoping there might be people here
          >> with some expertise who could help me out.
          >>
          >> Yours in Service,
          >> Lady Teleri
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Kass McGann
          He s a medieval musicologist?? Wow! ... He doesn t actually earn his living that way, unfortunately. It was just his major in college and something he is
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 3, 2000
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            He's a medieval musicologist?? Wow!
            >>>>
            He doesn't actually earn his living that way, unfortunately. It was just
            his major in college and something he is passionate about in the SCA.

            He earns his living as the assistant brewer at a microbrewery, which isn't
            so bad either... ;)

            Kass
          • spanogle@ix.netcom.com
            What I m hoping for at this point is references to help me find the medieval and Renaissance sources of non-Christian music, if there are any. Especially
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 8, 2000
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              What I'm hoping for at this point is references to help me find the
              medieval and Renaissance sources of non-Christian music, if there are
              any. Especially helpful would be transcriptions of the medieval
              notation into modern, and transcriptions and/or translations of
              Hebrew, Arabic or Ladino texts. I'm basically hoping for something
              like what Van Der Werf did with the troubadour manuscripts, or what
              has been done for the Cantigas de Santa Maria. Since I'm just
              starting out, I don't know if that sort of scholarly material exists
              for any non-Western/Christian traditions. At this point I don't
              really even know what exists in the way of original manuscripts.

              Am I hoping for too much? Is any of this out there?

              Yours in Service,
              Teleri ferch Morgant


              --- In Authentic_SCA@egroups.com, "Stephen Higa" <mitsuo@u...> wrote:
              >
              > My suggestion: find the period texts, find out all you can about
              the music that would've been associated with it (particularly rhythm,
              modes, theory, etc.), listen to the modern traditions, and formulate
              a melody for the text based on that knowledge. Of course, the modern
              "Andalusian" musical tradition in North Africa claims unbroken
              continuity with the medieval Arabo-Andalusian tradition, and those
              Ladino songs also seem to have unbroken links to 15th c. Spain, but
              since we can't be sure, it might be the better bet to create melodies
              anew using the documentably medieval text. My current project is an
              11th/12th c. Hebrew muwashshah, and in the past I've done the same
              with Beowulf. The medieval music ensemble Altramar (whom I've linked
              in the "Links" section) also does this.
              >
              > e sirviessen a vos,
              > Moshe Mantega
            • Stephen Higa
              Unfortunately, according to my understanding, actual manuscripts are scarce or nonexistant. Of course, we sometimes get biblical cantillation symbols for
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 8, 2000
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                Unfortunately, according to my understanding, actual manuscripts are scarce
                or nonexistant. Of course, we sometimes get biblical cantillation symbols
                for medieval Jewish biblical texts, but aside from that...Occasionally the
                lyrics to songs in the modern oral traditions bear close resemblance to the
                documentably medieval texts, so some inferences can be made from that.

                Parallel Christian traditions supposed to be influenced by non-western
                musics (i.e., the Cantigas de Santa Maria, dance music, troubadour songs)
                can also provide important clues. I was looking through a book on Medieval
                Jewish music, and it provided a rare example of a documentably period Ladino
                folk song, "Ea Judios"--I played the melody from the given notation, and
                found that it bore a STRIKING resemblance to Cantiga 100, "Santa Maria
                strela do dia"...

                There's a book published by UC Berkeley I'm currently trying to find called
                "Ten Hispano-Arabic Songs in the Modern Oral Tradition" by James Monroe and
                Benjamin Liu. I've heard that this is an excellent resource for tracing
                traditional muwashshahat to their medieval roots. So that's a good book to
                try and get a hold of, if you can find it.

                en serviçio del sueño,
                Moshe Mantega
                --------------------------
                Todo callado, todo 'stava'n silencio,
                Como la nuve'n a la escuridad.
                "Miseravle! Porqué vienes agora
                Arecordarme del mal que yo pasí,
                Arecordarme de toda la mi vida?"
                --anon. sefardí

                ----------
                >From: spanogle@...
                >To: Authentic_SCA@egroups.com
                >Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Ethnic Medieval Music
                >Date: Wed, Nov 8, 2000, 10:49 AM
                >

                >
                > What I'm hoping for at this point is references to help me find the
                > medieval and Renaissance sources of non-Christian music, if there are
                > any. Especially helpful would be transcriptions of the medieval
                > notation into modern, and transcriptions and/or translations of
                > Hebrew, Arabic or Ladino texts. I'm basically hoping for something
                > like what Van Der Werf did with the troubadour manuscripts, or what
                > has been done for the Cantigas de Santa Maria. Since I'm just
                > starting out, I don't know if that sort of scholarly material exists
                > for any non-Western/Christian traditions. At this point I don't
                > really even know what exists in the way of original manuscripts.
                >
                > Am I hoping for too much? Is any of this out there?
                >
                > Yours in Service,
                > Teleri ferch Morgant
                >
                >
                > --- In Authentic_SCA@egroups.com, "Stephen Higa" <mitsuo@u...> wrote:
                >>
                >> My suggestion: find the period texts, find out all you can about
                > the music that would've been associated with it (particularly rhythm,
                > modes, theory, etc.), listen to the modern traditions, and formulate
                > a melody for the text based on that knowledge. Of course, the modern
                > "Andalusian" musical tradition in North Africa claims unbroken
                > continuity with the medieval Arabo-Andalusian tradition, and those
                > Ladino songs also seem to have unbroken links to 15th c. Spain, but
                > since we can't be sure, it might be the better bet to create melodies
                > anew using the documentably medieval text. My current project is an
                > 11th/12th c. Hebrew muwashshah, and in the past I've done the same
                > with Beowulf. The medieval music ensemble Altramar (whom I've linked
                > in the "Links" section) also does this.
                >>
                >> e sirviessen a vos,
                >> Moshe Mantega
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > This is the Authentic SCA eGroup
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > authentic_SCA-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                >
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