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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Probably more than you needed to know about Brittany...

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  • Steven Proctor
    LOL. You *do* know something about the Dukes of Brittany, then... ROFL...... Morgan ... -- The countdown had stalled at T minus 69 seconds when Desiree, the
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 1, 2001
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      LOL. You *do* know something about the Dukes of Brittany, then...
      ROFL......

      Morgan


      "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" wrote:

      >> and the Duke a powerful vassal, merely gives him more
      >> weasel room...
      >
      >
      > and I read this as
      > and the Duke, a powerful weasel.......

      --
      The countdown had stalled at T minus 69 seconds when Desiree, the first
      female ape to go up in space, winked at me slyly and pouted her thick,
      rubbery lips unmistakably -- the first of many such advances during what
      would prove to be the longest, and most memorable, space voyage of my
      career.
    • s_krasley@recordtrak.com
      ... Now I know why they have portraits of themselves painted while they hold an ermine/weasel...... To error is human, to weasel out is real art. - Brynn
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 1, 2001
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., Steven Proctor <sproctor@b...> wrote:
        > LOL. You *do* know something about the Dukes of Brittany, then...
        > ROFL......
        >
        > Morgan
        >
        >
        > "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" wrote:
        >
        > >> and the Duke a powerful vassal, merely gives him more
        > >> weasel room...
        > >
        > >
        > > and I read this as
        > > and the Duke, a powerful weasel.......
        >

        Now I know why they have portraits of themselves painted while they
        hold an ermine/weasel......
        To error is human, to weasel out is real art.
        - Brynn
      • Steven Proctor
        It was full liege homage, according to several of my sources. Meaning he acknowledged the King of France as his overlord in Brittany. It s not like the Dukes
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 4, 2001
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          It was full liege homage, according to several of my sources. Meaning he
          acknowledged the King of France as his overlord in Brittany. It's not
          like the Dukes of Brittany were fully independent of the French Crown
          even before that, despite what later 'separatists' may say in basis of
          that claim. This was just the step from peripheral client state to full
          vassalage.

          You don't have to be granted lands to be a vassal. You may also become a
          vassal by subjugating your current lands to another, theoretically more
          powerful, noble. This is what the Dukes of Brittany did...

          I was incorrect about the year. It was 1297...

          Morgan





          caoilte wrote:

          > What did the contract say? If he became a vassal to the king of by
          > being
          > given fiefs that were not in Brittany or were not all of Brittany,
          > hdet hde
          > status of Brittany was not affected. Your saying that the Duke
          > surrendered
          > Brittany and recieved it back as a fief. Is this what happened? The
          > actual
          > fief that was granted to the Duke in exchange for his service is all
          > important here.
          >
          > Dorje

          --
          The countdown had stalled at T minus 69 seconds when Desiree, the first
          female ape to go up in space, winked at me slyly and pouted her thick,
          rubbery lips unmistakably -- the first of many such advances during what
          would prove to be the longest, and most memorable, space voyage of my
          career.
        • atterlep@cs.com
          ... When you say that the Duke s oath of fealty and homage to the King of France made Brittany part of France, it seems to me that you re combining two
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 4, 2001
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@y..., Steven Proctor <sproctor@b...> wrote:
            > It was full liege homage, according to several of my sources.
            > Meaning he acknowledged the King of France as his overlord in
            > Brittany. It's not like the Dukes of Brittany were fully
            > independent of the French Crown even before that, despite what
            > later 'separatists' may say in basis of that claim. This was just
            > the step from peripheral client state to full vassalage.

            When you say that the Duke's oath of fealty and homage to the King of
            France made Brittany "part of France," it seems to me that you're
            combining two totally different political paradigms. When we think
            of "France" we're thinking of a modern nation-state, something that
            arguably didn't exist in 1300. Even when the idea of "France" as a
            nation became clear, it didn't necessarily include all the lands
            whose lords swore fealty to the King of France. Didn't someone just
            point out that Joan of Arc talked of "going into France" when she
            travelled north from her hometown?

            The lines of fealty in the 13th century were tangled--for example,
            King John was a vassal of the Pope, but no one claims that England
            was "part of the Papal States." There's obviously more to nationhood
            than independent fealty.

            Fairfax
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