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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: How did people hold their pens?

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  • fastusminimus
    ... I think
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 6 8:39 AM
      On Jul 6, 2012, at 10:54 AM, Madame du Pont wrote:

      > Do you know why in a lot of the pictures the writers are holding
      > two instruments, one in each hand?
      >
      I >think< one is the pen and the other is to hold the media in
      place...without getting your sweaty icky fingers on it...
      Something I need to use this week!
      Ta
      Carol-in the stinkin heat for yet another few days! At least we have
      power, for now!

      > Thanks for the pictures. It is interesting to isolate one activity
      > and see it a lot of pictures.
      >
      > Adieu,
      > Madame du Pont

      Of the craftsmen it may be said that in the handiwork of their craft
      is their prayer.






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ylaire Sainte Claire
      Actually, this is a knife. This knife is held against the vellum while writing. A Pennsic, stop by guild Mirandola and talk to Ranthufr (Randy Asplund) about
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 7 10:29 PM
        Actually, this is a knife. This knife is held against the vellum while writing. A Pennsic, stop by guild Mirandola and talk to Ranthufr (Randy Asplund) about holding the pen and knife. He actually uses period tools, made by himself, and period grips. http://www.randyasplund.com/ his web page. A link of him holding both the pen and the knife. I believe the knife helps to hold the paper still without making smudges of oils (oils that could keep the ink from laying right) and to use as a guide of where to put the letter (like a kindergartner using a pointer finger on a line of text they are concentrating on writing). http://www.randyasplund.com/pages/article/schiff1.html


        He is an excellent source of information on authentic scribal tools, methods, paints, everything. He usually teaches a class or two at Pennsic in the Guild Mirandola tent. Also, there is an SCA Scribes and Illuminators yahoogroup where you might find others knowledgable on this subject.



        Ylaire Sainte Claire
        Shire of Sylvan Glen, Æthelmearc



        Sent from my iPad
      • Karen_Larsdatter
        The secondary tool is often a knife; it s used for holding down the parchment while writing, or scraping away an error before it has the chance to set, I
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 8 7:54 AM
          The secondary tool is often a knife; it's used for holding down the parchment while writing, or scraping away an error before it has the chance to set, I think; could also be used for sharpening a quill pen.

          Some assorted examples:
          http://atlantis.coe.uh.edu/manuscripts/docs/03medievalproduction.pdf
          http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/wmss/medieval/jpegs/imagecat/1500/imac0968.jpg
          http://www.themorgan.org/collections/collections.asp?id=81
          http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminatedmanuscripts/ILLUMIN.ASP?Size=mid&IllID=43454
          http://blog.metmuseum.org/penandparchment/exhibition-images/cat110r2_49b/
          http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/ConsulterElementNum?O=IFN-8100220&E=JPEG&Deb=46&Fin=46&Param=C
          http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/ConsulterElementNum?O=IFN-8100228&E=JPEG&Deb=2&Fin=2&Param=C
          http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/ConsulterElementNum?O=IFN-8100228&E=JPEG&Deb=83&Fin=83&Param=C
          http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/ConsulterElementNum?O=IFN-8100228&E=JPEG&Deb=125&Fin=125&Param=C
          http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/ConsulterElementNum?O=IFN-8100261&E=JPEG&Deb=284&Fin=284&Param=C

          (A few more good examples at the Morgan Library, but their Corsair system seems to have problems this weekend.)

          I think the "Tournaments Illuminated" article was Sir Ranthulfr Asparlundr's piece a few years back; you can see a photo of him working with a pen and knife at http://www.randyasplund.com/imgs/histbufimg/Scribeshop.jpg
          Here's an article about the process he used to create a T.I. cover:
          http://www.randyasplund.com/pages/article/tournpg/tipg1.html


          Karen Larsdatter
          www.larsdatter.com
        • Madame du Pont
          Ummm, an ink horn. I need to look into those. When I do demos making silk standards I use a sea shell to put my dye in. So perhaps an ink horn might have
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 8 8:13 AM
            Ummm, an ink horn. I need to look into those. When I do demos making silk standards I use a sea shell to put my dye in. So perhaps an ink horn might have been used.

            And thank you for pointing that out.

            Adieu,
            Mme du Pont
            Stayner de silk
            4 days til I relocate to the realm of Meridies

            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Karen_Larsdatter" <karen_larsdatter@...> wrote:
            >
            > Madame du Pont asked:
            >
            > > Do you know why in a lot of the pictures the writers are holding
            > > two instruments, one in each hand?
            >
            > It depends on which illustration you're looking at; the second tool in http://www.nuernberger-hausbuecher.de/75-Amb-2-317-62-r/data is likely an inkhorn, for example (see http://larsdatter.com/inkwells.htm for several examples).
            >
            >
            > Karen Larsdatter
            > www.larsdatter.com
            >
          • Madame du Pont
            Merci for going to all the trouble of posting these links and I really like the picture of Sir Ranthulfr Asperlund! Your, In Service, Mme du Pont Stayner de
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 9 8:57 AM
              Merci for going to all the trouble of posting these links and I really like the picture of Sir Ranthulfr Asperlund!

              Your, In Service,
              Mme du Pont
              Stayner de silk
              Leaving An Tir for Meridies in 3 days....

              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Karen_Larsdatter" <karen_larsdatter@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > I think the "Tournaments Illuminated" article was Sir Ranthulfr Asparlundr's piece a few years back; you can see a photo of him working with a pen and knife at http://www.randyasplund.com/imgs/histbufimg/Scribeshop.jpg
              > Here's an article about the process he used to create a T.I. cover:
              > http://www.randyasplund.com/pages/article/tournpg/tipg1.html
              >
              >
              > Karen Larsdatter
              > www.larsdatter.com
              >
            • Madame du Pont
              That all makes sense. Merci for thy reply! Mme du Pont Stayner de silk
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 9 8:59 AM
                That all makes sense. Merci for thy reply!
                Mme du Pont
                Stayner de silk

                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, fastusminimus <cahuff@...> wrote:
                >

                > >
                > I >think< one is the pen and the other is to hold the media in
                > place...without getting your sweaty icky fingers on it...
                > Something I need to use this week!
              • Madame du Pont
                Merci for the interesting information. Sometimes, it is the little things that make all the difference!! Adieu, Mme du Pont Stayner de silk Chateau du Merry
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 9 9:00 AM
                  Merci for the interesting information. Sometimes, it is the 'little things' that make all the difference!!

                  Adieu,
                  Mme du Pont
                  Stayner de silk
                  Chateau du Merry Swan


                  --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Ylaire Sainte Claire <ylairesainteclaire@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Actually, this is a knife. This knife is held against the vellum while writing. A Pennsic, stop by guild Mirandola and talk to Ranthufr (Randy Asplund) about holding the pen and knife. He actually uses period tools, made by himself, and period grips. http://www.randyasplund.com/ his web page. A link of him holding both the pen and the knife. I believe the knife helps to hold the paper still without making smudges of oils (oils that could keep the ink from laying right) and to use as a guide of where to put the letter (like a kindergartner using a pointer finger on a line of text they are concentrating on writing). http://www.randyasplund.com/pages/article/schiff1.html
                  >
                  >
                  > He is an excellent source of information on authentic scribal tools, methods, paints, everything. He usually teaches a class or two at Pennsic in the Guild Mirandola tent. Also, there is an SCA Scribes and Illuminators yahoogroup where you might find others knowledgable on this subject.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Ylaire Sainte Claire
                  > Shire of Sylvan Glen, Æthelmearc
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sent from my iPad
                  >
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