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Is a "Court Barony" period?

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  • Catherine Holcombe of Arden
    Just wondering if there is any historical evidence that a Barony was awarded to a worthy couple for doing great deeds? I m thinking of 12th Century
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 21, 2011
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      Just wondering if there is any historical evidence that a Barony was "awarded" to a worthy couple for doing great deeds? I'm thinking of 12th Century "England-ish"...

      YIS,
      Catherine Holcombe of Arden
    • LJonthebay
      ... In period, a baron was someone who held lands granted by their king. This was usually in return for military or other service to the Crown. A barony
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 22, 2011
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Catherine Holcombe of Arden" <piccolopwr@...> wrote:
        >
        > Just wondering if there is any historical evidence that a Barony was "awarded" to a worthy couple for doing great deeds? I'm thinking of 12th Century "England-ish"...

        In period, a baron was someone who held lands granted by their king. This was usually in return for military or other service to the Crown.

        A barony without a grant of land is an SCA construct that gives our Royalty a way to reward someone for something that may not fit under another available award in their kingdom. (It's also become customary to award court baronies to landed barons/baronesses once they step down from their term of service as such.)

        Saionji no Hana
        West Kingdom
      • Scat@cfl.rr.com
        In some kingdoms the court barony is required by kingdom law for those stepping down; in other kingdoms it is a custom that, in a few instances, may not be
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 22, 2011
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          In some kingdoms the court barony is required by kingdom law for those
          stepping down; in other kingdoms it is a custom that, in a few instances,
          may not be followed.



          Some more IKA

          Colm

          From: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of LJonthebay
          Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:52 PM
          To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Is a "Court Barony" period?







          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:Authentic_SCA%40yahoogroups.com> , "Catherine Holcombe of Arden"
          <piccolopwr@...> wrote:
          >
          > Just wondering if there is any historical evidence that a Barony was
          "awarded" to a worthy couple for doing great deeds? I'm thinking of 12th
          Century "England-ish"...

          In period, a baron was someone who held lands granted by their king. This
          was usually in return for military or other service to the Crown.

          A barony without a grant of land is an SCA construct that gives our Royalty
          a way to reward someone for something that may not fit under another
          available award in their kingdom. (It's also become customary to award court
          baronies to landed barons/baronesses once they step down from their term of
          service as such.)

          Saionji no Hana
          West Kingdom





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bphall76
          Well, I imagine that 12th century rank granting most places would include land. So, in that respect, granting a Court Barony isn t very medieval. However,
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 22, 2011
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            Well, I imagine that 12th century rank granting most places would include land. So, in that respect, granting a Court Barony isn't very medieval. However, appointing people to posts that gave them income instead of lands wouldn't be unheard of. If you substitute land or privilege for a higher place in the Order of Precedence, it might could be passably period. In my Kingdom (An Tir) a Court Barony confers an Award of Arms. In other kingdoms, I believe, it conveys a Grant of Arms.

            For what it's worth.
            Vasilisa Myshkina










            -----Original Message-----
            From: Scat <Scat@...>
            To: Authentic_SCA <Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, Jul 22, 2011 2:04 pm
            Subject: RE: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Is a "Court Barony" period?





            In some kingdoms the court barony is required by kingdom law for those
            stepping down; in other kingdoms it is a custom that, in a few instances,
            may not be followed.

            Some more IKA

            Colm

            From: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of LJonthebay
            Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:52 PM
            To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Is a "Court Barony" period?

            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Authentic_SCA%40yahoogroups.com>; , "Catherine Holcombe of Arden"
            <piccolopwr@...> wrote:
            >
            > Just wondering if there is any historical evidence that a Barony was
            "awarded" to a worthy couple for doing great deeds? I'm thinking of 12th
            Century "England-ish"...

            In period, a baron was someone who held lands granted by their king. This
            was usually in return for military or other service to the Crown.

            A barony without a grant of land is an SCA construct that gives our Royalty
            a way to reward someone for something that may not fit under another
            available award in their kingdom. (It's also become customary to award court
            baronies to landed barons/baronesses once they step down from their term of
            service as such.)

            Saionji no Hana
            West Kingdom

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Honour Horne-Jaruk
            ... (snip) ... Although usually the case, there s one exception: In the Crusader kingdoms, Barons of the Court did not hold land. What they actually did,
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 22, 2011
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              Respected friends:

              --- On Fri, 7/22/11, LJonthebay <wodeford@...> wrote:

              > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com,
              > "Catherine Holcombe of Arden" <piccolopwr@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Just wondering if there is any historical evidence
              > that a Barony was "awarded" to a worthy couple for doing
              > great deeds? I'm thinking of 12th Century
              > "England-ish"...
              >
              > In period, a baron was someone who held lands granted by
              > their king. This was usually in return for military or other
              > service to the Crown.
              >
              > A barony without a grant of land is an SCA construct that
              > gives our Royalty a way to reward someone for something that
              > may not fit under another available award in their kingdom.
              (snip)
              > Saionji no Hana
              > West Kingdom

              Although usually the case, there's one exception: In the Crusader kingdoms, "Barons of the Court" did not hold land. What they actually did, however, my informant couldn't explain.

              Yours in service to both the Societies of which I am a member-
              (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.
              Alizaundre de Brebeuf, C.O.L. S.C.A.- AKA Una the wisewoman, or That Pict

              "If you're a normal human, the inside of your head is not a pretty
              place. Venting it unfiltered to the internet may feel therapeutic,
              but it's unlikely to end well."
              --Goedjn
            • Chris Laning
              ... Not at that period, as far as I know. Late in our period (IIRC) it became the fashion for older knights, most of whom were knighted for prowess on the
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 23, 2011
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                On Jul 21, 2011, at 11:58 PM, Catherine Holcombe of Arden wrote:

                > Just wondering if there is any historical evidence that a Barony was "awarded" to a worthy couple for doing great deeds? I'm thinking of 12th Century "England-ish"...


                Not at that period, as far as I know.

                Late in our period (IIRC) it became the fashion for older knights, most of whom were knighted for prowess on the battlefield, to look down their noses and sniff at the newer "carpet knights", who were knighted for other forms of service.

                ____________________________________________________________

                O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
                + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
                http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
                ____________________________________________________________
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