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Favours for a Fencer

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  • Elizabeth Walpole
    Good morning all, I have not been on this list on a couple of years but I m hoping you can help me out. My lord has recently asked me for a favour that he can
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 18 4:01 PM
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      Good morning all,

      I have not been on this list on a couple of years but I'm hoping you
      can help me out.

      My lord has recently asked me for a favour that he can carry when
      fencing. It didn't occur to me before but I'm trying to think of
      something at least somewhat period appropriate to give him as a
      favour. I have somewhat limited embroidery skills (so far my only
      successful attempts have been counted blackwork) almost all of my SCA
      efforts tend towards garb making.

      So has anybody got evidence would be a period appropriate favour
      (ignoring debates about whether a man would carry a favour in the SCA
      sense, especially when fencing) for a 16th century persona that I can
      make using my fabric related skills.
      Thanks
      Elizabeth

      ------------------------------------------
      Elizabeth Walpole
      http://magpiecostumer.wordpress.com/
      http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/
    • Mary Llewellyn
      MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top post. Please trim portions of messages
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 18 6:00 PM
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        MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top post. Please trim portions of messages that do not require repetition. Thank you.
        Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

        [Repeated message has been deleted]
        M'lady, if I may be so bold, I think the perfect thing would be an
        embroidered glove!
        "Give me your gloves, I'll wear them for your sake..." Shakespeare, Merchant
        of Venice
        Yours in service,
        Adelicia di Rienzi
        (mka Mary Llewellyn)
      • Karen
        ...   ... I d agree with Adelicia s recommendation, and I m going to also point you at a 16th century portrait -- that of George Clifford, Earl of Cumberland
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 19 6:58 AM
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          Elizabeth asked:
          > So has anybody got evidence would be a period appropriate favour
          > (ignoring debates about whether a man would carry a favour in the SCA
          > sense, especially when fencing) for a 16th century persona that I can
          > make using my fabric related skills.
           
          to which Adelicia responded:
          > M'lady, if I may be so bold, I think the perfect thing would be an
          > embroidered glove!
          > "Give me your gloves, I'll wear them for your sake..." Shakespeare, Merchant
          > of Venice

          I'd agree with Adelicia's recommendation, and I'm going to also point you at a
          16th century portrait -- that of George Clifford, Earl of Cumberland -- where
          he's wearing a glove that was given to him, apparently by Queen Elizabeth
          herself, in his hat:
          http://www.wga.hu/html/h/hilliard/clifford.html

          You can find more 16th century gloves linked from
          http://larsdatter.com/gloves.htm%c2%a0of course; scroll down to the section of the
          miscellaneous five-fingered gloves for many examples.


          Another possibility would be a handkerchief (again, going back to Shakespeare
          for inspiration -- there's the "Handkerchiefe spotted with Strawberries" in
          Othello); you'll find several embroidered handkerchiefs linked from
          http://www.larsdatter.com/handkerchiefs.htm%c2%a0which may inspire you.



          Karen Larsdatter
          www.larsdatter.com
        • Jennifer Kobayashi
          ... A handkerchief, glove or sleeve come to mind. A handkerchief as favor plays an important part in Othello. The Merchant of Venice quote for gloves has
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 19 11:03 AM
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            >So has anybody got evidence would be a period appropriate favour
            > for a 16th century persona that I can
            >make using my fabric related skills.
            >
            A handkerchief, glove or sleeve come to mind.

            A handkerchief as favor plays an important part in Othello.
            The Merchant of Venice quote for gloves has previously been posted.
            I can't think of a 16th cen reference for sleeves off hand, but sleeves were
            certainly given as favors in earlier times and I belive still in the 16th cen.




            -Jennifer/Gwendolyn of Middlemarch
          • Elizabeth Walpole
            Thanks to everyone for your recommendations. I actually thought of the handkerchief last night before I read Karen and Jennifer s messages but its good to know
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 19 3:52 PM
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              Thanks to everyone for your recommendations. I actually thought of the
              handkerchief last night before I read Karen and Jennifer's messages
              but its good to know I've got it right. I've decided that as my
              embroidery skills are somewhat limited at the moment I'll do some
              blackwork around the edge of a handkerchief right now with an aim to
              embroider the cuffs of a glove eventually.

              I've come up with a design combining elements from our arms based on
              these gloves http://www.flickr.com/photos/69933810@N00/4906537725/sizes/l/in/photostream/
              which I photographed at the Bath Fashion Museum last year. I could do
              the couched cord part of the embroidery with my current skills but the
              design in the centre will require some practice.

              Thanks again for your help.
              Elizabeth

              ------------------------------------------
              Elizabeth Walpole
              http://magpiecostumer.wordpress.com/
              http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/
            • Wolf Logan
              MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top post. Please trim portions of messages
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 19 5:28 PM
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                MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top post. Please trim portions of messages that do not require repetition.
                Also, please sign your posts. This is a big list and it helps if everyone knows who everyone is.
                Thank you.
                Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

                [Repeated message deleted by moderator]

                Isn't the use of sleeves-as-favours the source of the maunch as a heraldic charge?
              • Schrecht
                ... Excellent question, and congratulations for choosing to avoid the tea towel. In addition to the glove, sleeve, and handkerchief already mentioned,
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 21 6:55 AM
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                  > My lord has recently asked me for a favour that he can carry when
                  > fencing. It didn't occur to me before but I'm trying to think of
                  > something at least somewhat period appropriate to give him as a
                  > favour. I have somewhat limited embroidery skills (so far my only
                  > successful attempts have been counted blackwork) almost all of my SCA
                  > efforts tend towards garb making.
                  >
                  > So has anybody got evidence would be a period appropriate favour
                  > (ignoring debates about whether a man would carry a favour in the SCA
                  > sense, especially when fencing) for a 16th century persona that I can
                  > make using my fabric related skills.

                  Excellent question, and congratulations for choosing to avoid the tea towel. In
                  addition to the glove, sleeve, and handkerchief already mentioned, Elizabethans
                  wore a lot of rings, and gave them as tokens of friendship and more. Rings
                  didn't even have to fit: men sometimes wore a lady's ring on a ribbon, or pinned
                  to a sleeve. There are several portraits of men in Elizabeth's court wearing
                  them - Sir Henry Lee is one.


                  And something I haven't seen used as a specific mark of favor in period, but
                  which works quite well, is garters. They were near-ubiquitous in period, but
                  are often omitted in our game. Make them up with a nice pair of reproduction
                  silver buckles, and even without the tea-towel-style embroidery, you've given
                  him something special and improved his kit.

                  Regards,
                  Jost
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