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  • germany.linda
    Hello! Mundanely I am known as Linda Germnay. I am relatively new to the SCA. For the past little while my husband and I have gotten by with our walmart
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 16, 2010
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      Hello! Mundanely I am known as Linda Germnay. I am relatively new to the SCA. For the past little while my husband and I have "gotten by" with our walmart cotten garb. I am ready to step it up a bit and start working with linen. Unfortunately as a fairly inexperienced seamstress I am unsure as to what weight to use for over tunics. Can anyone help?
      Linda
    • Sarah Michele Ford
      ... This depends in part on your time period & location. Wool is a safe bet, as is silk. Both in medium weights. You can also line lighter-weight fabrics to
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 16, 2010
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        On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 13:54, germany.linda <germany.linda@...>wrote:

        > Hello! Mundanely I am known as Linda Germnay. I am relatively new to the
        > SCA. For the past little while my husband and I have "gotten by" with our
        > walmart cotten garb. I am ready to step it up a bit and start working with
        > linen. Unfortunately as a fairly inexperienced seamstress I am unsure as to
        > what weight to use for over tunics. Can anyone help?
        > Linda


        This depends in part on your time period & location. Wool is a safe bet, as
        is silk. Both in medium weights. You can also line lighter-weight fabrics
        to give them the desired amount of body. Linen as a fashion layer is a bit
        controversial but medium-weight linen is often a good, affordable option
        for outer layers.

        HTH,
        Alianor de R
        *********************************************************
        Alianor de Ravenglas (MKA Sarah Michele Ford)
        Barony of the Rhydderich Hael
        Kingdom of Aethelmearc
        http://alianorderavenglas.wordpress.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Linda Germany
        I am from the bottom most portion of Gleann Abhann. Wool is a little warm for me. I am playing with the idea of an early 15th century french woman. If this
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 16, 2010
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          I am from the bottom most portion of Gleann Abhann. Wool is a little warm for me. I am playing with the idea of an early 15th century french woman. If this is of any more help...
          Linda
        • borderlands15213
          ... Greetings, and welcome! Linen s a wonderful fiber to wear in hot and/or humid climates. You ve asked about weights. 5.3-ounce linen is heavy enough to be
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 18, 2010
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "germany.linda" <germany.linda@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello! <<<snipped>>> Unfortunately as a fairly inexperienced seamstress I am unsure as to what weight to use for over tunics. Can anyone help?
            > Linda
            >

            Greetings, and welcome!
            Linen's a wonderful fiber to wear in hot and/or humid climates.
            You've asked about weights.
            5.3-ounce linen is heavy enough to be "bottom weight," such as would be used for modern slacks or skirts. 3.5-ounce is light enough to make chemises/'sherts'/shirts/smocks.
            I think that in part what weight linen is being worn as an outer tunic will depend on who's doing the wearing and what that individual's heat tolerances are (really sensitive persons might have heat issues even though they're wearing all linen or a combination of wool over linen.

            Something you'd want to know before making your selection of fabric, however, would be what's making up any given weight of linen. By that, I mean that 5.3-ounces is 5.3-ounces whether the threads of the fabric are very fine, and the weight is made up by having more of them per square inch, or whether the threads of the weave are coarser, with fewer of them per square inch (or square yard) making up that 5.3-ounces.
            If you are purchasing your linen in a "brick-and-mortar" store where you can see it, touch it, handle it before deciding, well and good. If you are going to be purchasing linen on-line, request samples of a given weight and color, first, so you can decide ahead of making the actual purchase whether the grade of the weave, and not just the weight, is satisfactory.

            Yseult the Gentle
          • CLEY
            ... Greetings Linda. :-) Linen. Good linen. Wash it within an inch of its life and it will be good SOFT linen. Summer weight wools are nice too. The main thing
            Message 5 of 23 , Jun 20, 2010
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              Linda Germany wrote:
              >
              >
              > I am from the bottom most portion of Gleann Abhann. Wool is a little
              > warm for me. I am playing with the idea of an early 15th century
              > french woman. If this is of any more help...
              > Linda
              >
              Greetings Linda. :-)

              Linen. Good linen. Wash it within an inch of its life and it will be
              good SOFT linen. Summer weight wools are nice too.

              The main thing is to use natural fibers; synthetics don't breathe and
              you will--most unfortunately--be miserable in them. Natural fibers wick
              and breathe, so are lovely in warmer and/or humid climes.

              Arlys,
              living in the rain forest that is central An Tir
            • Linda Germany
              Thank you so much for your advice. Well washed linen is a wonderful thing. A few of my mundane things are well washed and well loved linen. My first event I
              Message 6 of 23 , Jun 20, 2010
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                Thank you so much for your advice. Well washed linen is a wonderful thing. A few of my mundane things are well washed and well loved linen. My first event I wore a linen tunic and a gwazee coat and was most comfortable.
                Linda
              • Linda Germany
                I am trying to do most of my shopping from a store. We have a great fabric store about 30 minutes from my town and I plan on using them a great deal. Thank
                Message 7 of 23 , Jun 20, 2010
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                  I am trying to do most of my shopping from a store. We have a great fabric store about 30 minutes from my town and I plan on using them a great deal. Thank you for the information on the "weight" of linen. I didn't know that.
                  Linda
                • Cilean_69
                  Thank you Yseult the Gentle for answering the actual question! I can help you with searching for good linen, A. Linen-store.com - Has linen set up in ounces so
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jun 26, 2010
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                    Thank you Yseult the Gentle for answering the actual question!
                    I can help you with searching for good linen,

                    A. Linen-store.com - Has linen set up in ounces so it makes it easier for you to find what you need!

                    B. Denverfabrics.com -is no longer the same place it was 4 years ago it was bought out so you need to pick through the dreck to find the good fabrics.

                    C. Joann's, has some 100% I would say is medium weight or 5.3 ounces, look for 50% off coupons and this will run you about $7.50 per yard. They also have blends, and their Cotton/Linen "tissue" Linen is a very nice compromise for Smocks or underclothing.


                    I too have issues with heat and wool even 'summer weight' has left me breathless and too warm. So good luck!

                    Cilean
                  • Isabella D'Angelo
                    MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our list members who receive their messages in digest form, we request that you not top post . Please trim any previous
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jun 26, 2010
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                      MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our list members who receive their messages in digest form, we request that you not "top post". Please trim any previous message text that does not require repetition. Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator

                      PRECEDING MESSAGE DELETED IN ITS ENTIRETY

                      What Cilean has said (I love Joann's cotton/linen blends...and it's period for 16th c Italy) plus some more info:

                      Fabric.com - I truly love their stuff. Sign up for their newsletters and coupons. They tend to cycle through what's on sale and it was just "silk" season. By Fall, it should be "linen" season again. I buy from them a lot.

                      Denverfabrics.com - they got bought out four years ago by Fashion Fabrics Club, as Cilean said. I recently bought from them since they had a very light gray (it looks off white to me) silk taffeta on sale. It turned out to be very good quality stuff for only $5 a yard. Again, sign up for the newsletters to know when stuff is on sale.

                      Ebay & Etsy - I've gotten some "ugh" stuff and some really awesome stuff from both places. Just know that it is a bit of a gamble if the person who is selling has no idea how to do fabric testing. Most will cut a small sample and do a burn test for you (to determine if it's natural or synthetic fibers) if you ask so make sure you contact the seller ahead of time.

                      -Isabella
                    • senoreneko
                      MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our list members who receive their messages in digest form, we request that you not top post . Please trim any previous
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jun 26, 2010
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                        MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our list members who receive their messages in digest form, we request that you not "top post". Please trim any previous message text that does not require repetition. Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator

                        PRECEDING MESSAGE DELETED IN ITS ENTIRETY

                        <Linen-store.com> is a dead link with a "scoop" page.

                        Eneko
                      • lilinah@earthlink.net
                        ... I also recommend http://www.fabric.com/apparel-fashion-fabric-linen-fabric.aspx Although they don t give weight in ounces, they do let you know if it is
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jun 26, 2010
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                          Cilean wrote:
                          >I can help you with searching for good linen,
                          >
                          >A. Linen-store.com - Has linen set up in ounces so it makes it
                          >easier for you to find what you need!

                          I also recommend
                          http://www.fabric.com/apparel-fashion-fabric-linen-fabric.aspx

                          Although they don't give weight in ounces, they do let you know if it
                          is handkerchief, light, medium, heavy, etc. and what sorts of modern
                          garments it is suitable for, which is helpful. Their selection
                          changes.

                          And they often have sales with good quality pure linen under $8 and
                          sometimes under $5, which you can find out about if you get on their
                          mailing list.

                          They also sell linen/cotton and linen/cellulose rayon blends. In my
                          experiences, pure linen is much more comfortable in hot weather than
                          either blend. And pure linen is way more comfortable than cotton.
                          Right now they also have cotton/hemp fabric. But the blends are
                          infinitely better than anything with polyester or other synthetics.

                          I have been shopping with them for over 10 years, and buy fabrics for
                          non-SCA projects, too. I got excellent resolution on the one occasion
                          i had a problem.
                          --
                          Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]
                          the persona formerly known as Anahita
                        • Jenn Ridley
                          On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 07:44:49 -0000, Cilean_69 ... I think you mean ... -- Anastasia Emilianova Jenn Ridley :
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jun 26, 2010
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                            On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 07:44:49 -0000, "Cilean_69" <cilean@...>
                            wrote:

                            >
                            >Thank you Yseult the Gentle for answering the actual question!
                            >I can help you with searching for good linen,
                            >
                            >A. Linen-store.com - Has linen set up in ounces so it makes it easier for you to find what you need!

                            I think you mean <www.fabrics-store.com>
                            >
                            >Cilean

                            --
                            Anastasia Emilianova
                            Jenn Ridley : jridley@...
                          • Linda Germany
                            MODERATOR NOTE: This is a big list. Please sign your posts so we know who you are. Modern names are fine if you don t have a persona name yet. Thank you.
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jun 26, 2010
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                              MODERATOR NOTE: This is a big list. Please sign your posts so we know who you are. Modern names are fine if you don't have a persona name yet. Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

                              Here in MS we have a hobby lobby 30 minutes from where i live. We also have a Joann's about an hour from here. I plan on paying them a visit!
                            • CLEY
                              Just curious: were there period methods of setting dyes to minimize fading, and/or ways to retain color on what were otherwise fugitive dyes? Arlys
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 13, 2010
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                                Just curious: were there period methods of setting dyes to minimize
                                fading, and/or ways to retain color on what were otherwise fugitive dyes?

                                Arlys
                              • Folo Watkins
                                ... Which period do you refer to? In the one I recreate--roughly Britain and Scandinavia around 1000 CE--stale urine was sometimes used. A pal from Regia in
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 13, 2010
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                                  >Just curious: were there period methods of setting dyes to minimize
                                  >fading, and/or ways to retain color on what were otherwise fugitive dyes?

                                  Which period do you refer to? In the one I recreate--roughly Britain
                                  and Scandinavia around 1000 CE--stale urine was sometimes used. A pal
                                  from Regia in the UK, Ian Uzzell, keeps several pots of stale urine
                                  "simmering" in his back yard for use in dyeing. Of course, Ian cannot
                                  smell (a fumbled operation to stop his snoring); his wife does not
                                  have the same disability :)

                                  Cheers, Folo
                                  www.micelfolcland.org
                                • kittencat3@aol.com
                                  Commercial dyes were pre-mordanted with alum or (sometimes) iron. Substantive dyes like turmeric, saffron, and indigo weren t mordanted at all, as far as I
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 13, 2010
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                                    Commercial dyes were pre-mordanted with alum or (sometimes) iron.
                                    Substantive dyes like turmeric, saffron, and indigo weren't mordanted at all, as
                                    far as I know....

                                    sarah Davies


                                    In a message dated 7/13/2010 10:28:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    cley56@... writes:




                                    Just curious: were there period methods of setting dyes to minimize
                                    fading, and/or ways to retain color on what were otherwise fugitive dyes?

                                    Arlys





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Quokkaqueen
                                    I second what Folo says -- the SCA period was a huge range of places and times, and it s likely that techniques varied. The effectiveness of dye fixatives also
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 13, 2010
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                                      I second what Folo says -- the SCA period was a huge range of places and times, and it's likely that techniques varied. The effectiveness of dye fixatives also varies somewhat according to the dyes used, and the fibre you're dying even before you get to the problem of dye permanence. (Eg. It's generally difficult to brightly dye linens, but it's easier to dye silks and wools.)

                                      With that said, the word you probably want to look out for is "mordant" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordant), since it might give you better results when searching the internet.

                                      ~Asfridhr
                                    • Amy Heilveil
                                      Arlys, A book called The Plitho of Gioanventura Rosetti, which exists in first edition from 1548 is a good book to get you started. As others have said,
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jul 13, 2010
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                                        Arlys,

                                        A book called "The Plitho" of Gioanventura Rosetti, which exists in first
                                        edition from 1548 is a good book to get you started. As others have said,
                                        there are a lot of different things to use as mordants and what you would
                                        have used would depend on the dye, the fabric to be dyed, your time period,
                                        and your geographic placement. You should be able to find a copy of the
                                        "Plitho" fairly simply. My copy is a photocopy of the MIT version produced
                                        in 1969. If you have a specific color that you are looking to mordant,
                                        please let us know and I'm sure several people will give you possible
                                        solutions or look things up in books we have.

                                        Smiles,
                                        Despina de la likes giving book names as references for people to go
                                        find....


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Folo Watkins
                                        Again dealing with a more specific time and place than the SCA, but possibly of interest, I remembered a site that had the results of the Regia dye project,
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jul 13, 2010
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                                          Again dealing with a more specific time and place than the SCA, but
                                          possibly of interest, I remembered a site that had the results of the
                                          Regia dye project, that includes the mordants used:
                                          http://regia.org/members/dyeproject.html

                                          Cheers, Folo
                                          www.micelfolcland.org
                                        • Diane Sawyer Dooley
                                          I think that s spelled Plictho . Tasha
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jul 13, 2010
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                                            I think that's spelled "Plictho".

                                            Tasha

                                            >
                                            >From: Amy Heilveil <amyheilveil@...>
                                            >To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
                                            >Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 8:17:54 PM
                                            >Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] dealing with fugitive dyes and dye-setting
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >Arlys,
                                            >
                                            >A book called "The Plitho" of Gioanventura Rosetti, which exists in first
                                            >edition from 1548 is a good book to get you started.
                                          • Amy Heilveil
                                            Thanks Tasha, I kept looking at it and was unable to see what was wrong. I greatly appreciate your correction on the spelling. I am purposely leaving the two
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jul 13, 2010
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                                              Thanks Tasha,
                                              I kept looking at it and was unable to see what was wrong. I greatly
                                              appreciate your correction on the spelling. I am purposely leaving the two
                                              other emails attached so that the meaning and proper spelling can be
                                              attached to the proper post.

                                              Smiles,
                                              Despina de la long day

                                              On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Diane Sawyer Dooley <
                                              tasha_medvedeva@...> wrote:

                                              > I think that's spelled "Plictho".
                                              >
                                              > Tasha
                                              >
                                              > >
                                              > >A book called "The Plitho" of Gioanventura Rosetti, which exists in first
                                              > >edition from 1548 is a good book to get you started.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Kathy Keeler
                                              Proper mordanting and after-dyeing treatments were certainly used, but medieval dyes still almost all faded more than we are accustomed to. I imagine they
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jul 14, 2010
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                                                Proper mordanting and after-dyeing treatments were certainly used, but
                                                medieval dyes still almost all faded more than we are accustomed to.
                                                I imagine they didn't think much about it, as we accept the fading of
                                                blue jeans.

                                                "Refreshing"--redyeing-- the cloth was common.

                                                And they treated their textiles much more gently than we treat ours.
                                                Clothing was washed sparingly and carefully stored.
                                                Mistress Flavia's dye samples are still bright after more than a
                                                decade, but I've kept them on the bookshelf--they hang out in front of
                                                the booklet--and not washed them. I have a box of wools I dyed that
                                                seem quite bright after 2 to many years, but again, they're washed
                                                infrequently and gently and kept out of the sun.

                                                People with expensive dyed clothes probably did not wear them outside
                                                in full sunlight, or if so, considered which colors to expose to the
                                                sun. Or could afford to throw them away.

                                                Late Period or post-Period dyers' handbooks may reveal some methods of
                                                setting colors, but a lot of dye technology was of great commercial
                                                value and so kept secret by the guilds.

                                                As others said, different times and places had different methods,
                                                resources and fibers.

                                                Agnes
                                                Unser Hafen, Outlands

                                                references I can lay my hands on quickly:
                                                section on caring for clothes and furs in Le Mesnagier de Paris
                                                (1393), Tania Bayard's edition & translation
                                                Mistress Flavia's dye booklets (Natural Dye Basics, and, A friendly
                                                guide to Period Dyes and Fibers)


                                                On Jul 13, 2010, at 8:13 AM, CLEY wrote:

                                                > Just curious: were there period methods of setting dyes to minimize
                                                > fading, and/or ways to retain color on what were otherwise fugitive
                                                > dyes?
                                                >
                                                > Arlys
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Folo Watkins
                                                I received a note from Gale Owes-C rocker today saying that the upcoming paperback edition of _Dress in Anglo-Saxon England_ is no different from the hardcover
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Jul 14, 2010
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                                                  I received a note from Gale Owes-C rocker today saying that the
                                                  upcoming paperback edition of _Dress in Anglo-Saxon England_ is no
                                                  different from the hardcover second edition (which is becoming
                                                  available at a reduced price from many dealers because the paperback
                                                  is imminent). Then she added:

                                                  >We are producing an
                                                  >Encyclopaedia of Medieval Dress and Taxtiles of the British Isles c
                                                  >450-1450 which will come out as a book and electronic edition,
                                                  >published by BRill, scheduled for 2011.

                                                  Hazel Uzzell--the long-suffering wife of the smell-impaired Ian, whom
                                                  I mentioned earlier--noted this when I mentioned it on another list:

                                                  I> have written a paper on dyeing during the period for this
                                                  publication. It has just gone through its last peer and editorial revue.
                                                  >There is a separate paper on woad, which I reviewed.
                                                  >I'm looking forward to the publication next year....but I think it
                                                  is going to be a bit pricey!

                                                  A bit in the future to help right now, but something that some of you
                                                  might want to look out for!

                                                  Cheers, Folo
                                                  www.micelfolcland.org
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