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Re: [Authentic_SCA] An owl displayed

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  • Tiffany Brown
    ... Does this imply you have found examples of owls not displayed? Teffania (trying to reconsile her very moderrn wish for a regular posture owl with
    Message 1 of 9 , May 5, 2010
      On 6 May 2010 11:43, eldwin_nightowl <eldwin@...> wrote:
      > Does anyone know of any pre-1601 arms with an owl displayed?  I'm finding lots of eagles, but not owls.

      Does this imply you have found examples of owls not displayed?

      Teffania
      (trying to reconsile her very moderrn wish for a regular posture owl
      with historical precedent)


      --
      . ___
      {o,o} The blog you are not looking for
      |)__) is definitely not at
      -"-"- http://teffania.blogspot.com
    • JL Badgley
      ... I can t think of any in heraldic display between 1066 and 1600, but I might recommend looking into Minerva and her owl (Glaucus, it seems). A quick Google
      Message 2 of 9 , May 5, 2010
        On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 8:43 AM, eldwin_nightowl <eldwin@...> wrote:
        >
        > Does anyone know of any pre-1601 arms with an owl displayed? I'm finding lots of eagles, but not owls.
        >
        I can't think of any in heraldic display between 1066 and 1600, but I
        might recommend looking into Minerva and her owl (Glaucus, it seems).
        A quick Google search turned up a variety of leads into owls in
        various places, though I don't know if this Greco-Roman symbol would
        have made it into later heraldry (which is what I'm assuming you are
        looking for--not just an owl, but something in the tradition of the
        various Colleges of Heralds that sprung up later in our period).

        -Ii Katsumori
      • Chris Laning
        ... If this is a heraldry question, probably the best place to ask it will be on either the SCAHRLDS list (SCAHRLDS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM) or its Yahoo counterpart
        Message 3 of 9 , May 6, 2010
          On May 5, 2010, at 6:43 PM, eldwin_nightowl wrote:

          > Does anyone know of any pre-1601 arms with an owl displayed? I'm
          > finding lots of eagles, but not owls.

          If this is a heraldry question, probably the best place to ask it will
          be on either the SCAHRLDS list (SCAHRLDS@...) or its
          Yahoo counterpart [sca_heralds] <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca_heralds/
          >, both of which are full of heralds with lots of experience.

          Off the top of my head (which means: don't take my word for this
          without asking someone more knowledgeable!), I believe the answer is
          generally no -- different types of birds in period heraldry each have
          their own most common pose, which is so characteristic that it's
          almost part of the definition of the bird. Eagles, for instance, are
          so often shown "displayed" (i.e. upright and facing you, with wings
          spread) that a vaguely defined bird in this posture is almost always
          assumed to be an eagle. Ravens are most often shown sideways (called
          "close" in herald-ese ;), falcons stooping, and so forth.

          I believe the usual posture for an owl in _SCA_ heraldry is "close
          guardant," i.e. sideways but with the head turned so that it's looking
          directly out at you. IIRC, a bird that *isn't* an eagle, shown
          displayed, in SCA heraldry, is regarded as "a step from period
          practice," and I assume that's based on more knowledge of how things
          are done in period armory than I have. You'd do well to ask on one of
          the heralds' lists, though, because it contains a lot of people who
          have a whole lot more period armory examples stored in their heads
          than I do.

          Hope this points you in a useful direction.

          ____________________________________________________________

          O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
          + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
          http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
          ____________________________________________________________
        • oisswafford
          ... I have a done a little research into owls in heraldry in the sca period. I haven t looked at continental resources yet but I haven t seen any owls
          Message 4 of 9 , May 6, 2010
            > Does anyone know of any pre-1601 arms with an owl displayed? I'm finding lots of eagles, but not owls.
            >
            I have a done a little research into owls in heraldry in the sca period. I haven't looked at continental resources yet but I haven't seen any owls displayed in English heraldry. The default posture appears to be close and it is never blazoned. Owls sometimes have human faces in period depictions and this feature isn't blazoned either which leads me to believe that it was common practice.

            This book has several owls with blazons and emblazons. A couple of them are:

            Folio 18:2
            S. John Sayvvyle, Yorkechyre: Argent, on a bend engraild sable three owls argent; quarterly with Thronhill, gules tow gemelles and a chief argent

            Folio 22b.:4
            Watyr Calvveryley of Lancasterchyre: Sable, a false excucheon between six owls 3.2.1. bordurewise argent.

            Folio 57b:4
            John Slye: Gules, a chevron azure between three owls argent.

            Folio 65:8
            Hewett of Staff (added) : Sable, a chevron engrailed argent between three owls of the second.

            Folio 40:6
            John Seffelle (Qy. Seyville, no Savile): Argent, on a bend sable, three owls of the field, a label (3) gules.
            (picture on p 193)

            Folio 42b:8
            Thomas Oulegreve: Azure, a fess engrailed argent, between three owls of the last (picture on p198)

            Folio 52b:6
            Sable, three owls 2 and 1 argent, legged gules.

            I hope that helps.

            Gwenlliana Clutterbooke
            Herald with a fondness for owls
          • eldwin_nightowl
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            Message 5 of 9 , May 6, 2010
              MODERATOR NOTE - As a courtesy to our many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we ask that you not top post. Please delete any text which does not require repetition. Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator

              REPEATED MESSAGE DELETED

              Yes. I've found several examples, but here's one: "The arms (ones granted on 7th November 1894) are based on those of the ancient family of Oldham, which are Sable a chevron Or between three Owls Argent on a Chief Or three Roses Gules." http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/lancs_pre74.html#oldham cbc

              You'd have to check the dates for yourself, but there are many devices with owls at http://www.ngw.nl/themes/uil.htm

              I hope this helps!

              -- Eldwin Nightowl
            • eldwin_nightowl
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              Message 6 of 9 , May 6, 2010
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                I'll check that--thanks!

                \
              • eldwin_nightowl
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                Message 7 of 9 , May 6, 2010
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                  Thanks for your help, even if it isn't what I was hoping. Ah well. I
                  didn't know owls with human faces were common. Seeing one of those
                  would be a little frightening.
                • Tiffany Brown
                  ... Which book please? thanks so much for the information. I ve been focussed on early period, so the heraldry I ve begun to look at has had pretty low chances
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 6, 2010
                    On 7 May 2010 01:38, oisswafford <oisswafford@...> wrote:
                    > This book has several owls with blazons and emblazons.  A couple of them are:

                    Which book please?

                    thanks so much for the information. I've been focussed on early
                    period, so the heraldry I've begun to look at has had pretty low
                    chances of showing up an owl even if they were a rare but used charge.

                    Teffania



                    --
                    . ___
                    {o,o} The blog you are not looking for
                    |)__) is definitely not at
                    -"-"- http://teffania.blogspot.com
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