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Re: [Authentic_SCA] 2nd Crusades

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  • George A. Trosper
    ... I am strangely pleased to discover that I m doing something mildly disreputable--but annoyed that my method is anachronistic. Regrettably, my mug s
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
      Robert Van Rens wrote:
      > He would NOT have carried a mug on a strap at his belt. No one did - this is a modern anachronism with no evidence that it is based in historical practice. Drinking from a small jug (modernly a mug) is pretty vulgar, and there's not a lot of visual evidence for it this early. It was the kind of thing men did in taverns, or soldiers on campaign, or similar disreputable folks.
      I am strangely pleased to discover that I'm doing something mildly
      disreputable--but annoyed that my method is anachronistic. Regrettably,
      my mug's chainmail-with-fake-jewels strap wasn't based on period visual
      evidence either. Now that I"m not carrying cigarettes and a lighter, I
      suspect it will fit in my belt pouch along with the car keys, 20th-c.
      wallet, bag for the rings, etc.

      I *have* seen visual evidence that tucking one's gloves into the belt is
      period.

      More on the original question:

      * It occurs to me that if you've got a sword and a knife, you'll carry
      sharpening equipment. I'd figure a whetstone and one or more oily
      cloths--presumably in a little oil-proof bag--but I may well need to
      stand corrected on this point, too.

      * While no D&D backpack would be complete without a length of rope, I
      don't know if it makes sense for our 2nd-Crusade armsman. But
      flint-&-steel seems reasonable.

      * If your boy already has a metal flask, or other too-fancy gear, he
      doesn't need to have afforded it. That's what foraging (aka looting) is
      for, and/or gifts from one's liege.
    • Quokkaqueen
      ... There were leather cases that cups were placed inside: 15-16th century French:
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
        <<snip>>
        > From my research the whole "Mug on the belt" thing is a modern concept
        <<snip>>

        There were leather cases that cups were placed inside:

        15-16th century French:
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/medievalandrenaissance/3746015890/
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/medievalandrenaissance/3745287445/
        http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O127927/cup-case-and/

        15-16th century German case (glass itself is earlier)
        http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi01636f01a.jpg

        15th century English case (glass is earlier)
        http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O3311/beaker-and-case-the-luck-of-edenhall/

        What might be just a guess from the Victoria & Albert Museum, is the idea that the case 'could be carried on a belt for convenience' or the 'thong might be used to tie a small case to a belt for convenience.' (From vam.ac.uk and the flickr descriptions, respectively.) So there is a vague chance that a cup - in a case- might be a plausible way to carry a cup in the 15th and 16th centuries. It is significantly different to the near-universally worn tankard on a leather strap, but I'd suggest the concept itself is likely.

        But this is much, much later than the 12th century and the time of the second Crusade.

        ~Asfridhr
      • Labhaoise
        the Coilition of Historical Treckers might have info... http://www.coht.org/ Labhaoise
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 4, 2010
          the Coilition of Historical Treckers might have info...
          http://www.coht.org/
          Labhaoise

          Marianne Perdomo <marianne@...> wrote:
          > Exactly, also armies elsewhere... What I've never read is what smaller bands
          > of more normal travellers would do. But it makes sense to me that they'd do
          > something similar, though on a smaller scale. I think there's several
          > account of pilgrimages (like Margery Kempe's IIRC) where pilgrims would join
          > in a group. What I'm not sure is the extent of their traveling arrangements.
        • Chris Laning
          ... As far as I know, the tankard on a leather strap hanging from a belt has purely practical modern roots -- I believe it was invented at Renaissance Faires
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 4, 2010
            On Mar 3, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Quokkaqueen wrote:

            > So there is a vague chance that a cup - in a case- might be a
            > plausible way to carry a cup in the 15th and 16th centuries. It is
            > significantly different to the near-universally worn tankard on a
            > leather strap, but I'd suggest the concept itself is likely.


            As far as I know, the tankard on a leather strap hanging from a belt
            has purely practical modern roots -- I believe it was invented at
            Renaissance Faires in California, where having a cup always within
            reach is helpful in encouraging people to drink enough water and stay
            hydrated during a long and very hot day outdoors. Hikers sometimes
            carry a cup hooked to their belt for similar reasons.

            ____________________________________________________________

            O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
            + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
            http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
            ____________________________________________________________
          • Ynes de Toledo
            ... You may be interested in this site, the blog of a girl who travelled the Santiago pilgrimage way from Turin in nearly entirely medieval kit
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 4, 2010
              > At some point I've been thinking how one may do a pilgrimage
              > medievally... I
              > think the solution would have to lie in traveling very lightly.


              You may be interested in this site, the blog of a girl who travelled
              the Santiago pilgrimage way from Turin in nearly entirely medieval kit

              http://camino-medieval.webs.com/apps/blog/

              Check out her lovely equipment pages.

              best, Ynes de Toledo (Insulae Draconis)

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • George A. Trosper
              ... Except that their period starts when ours leaves off. --Gerard
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
                Labhaoise wrote:
                > the Coalition of Historical Treckers might have info...
                > http://www.coht.org/
                >
                Except that their period starts when ours leaves off.

                --Gerard
              • Labhaoise
                Thanks, I had mislaid the link myself!
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 8, 2010
                  Thanks,

                  I had mislaid the link myself!

                  Ynes de Toledo <hillofbees@...> wrote:
                  > > At some point I've been thinking how one may do a pilgrimage
                  > > medievally... I
                  > > think the solution would have to lie in traveling very lightly.
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