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Re: [Authentic_SCA] ladies' reverance

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  • Marianne Perdomo
    Greetings! Yes, I m familiar with Arbeau, thanks, but as you mention it s 100 years too late. I was hoping someone here would have encountered something in
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 11, 2010
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      Greetings!

      Yes, I'm familiar with Arbeau, thanks, but as you mention it's 100 years too
      late. I was hoping someone here would have encountered something in books of
      manners or such about the matter, than the dance people might have missed...
      Next step I'll ask them - check if they haven't found something I have
      missed ;)

      Nice blogs, by the way!!

      Thank you!!

      Leonor / Marianne


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    • CLEY
      MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to those members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you do not top post. Please trim portions of
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 11, 2010
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        MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to those members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you do not top post. Please trim portions of previous posts that do not require repetition. Thank you.
        Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

        (REPEATED MESSAGE DELETED)
        You know, you could be looking in the wrong place. Have you checked out any period sources on courtesy? All a reveraunce is supposed to do is give honor to your partner, which leads me to think that it would be something commonly done all the time within a culture without the dance context.

        Have you looked at Master Gregory's web page? He's got all kinds of
        amazing sources there, including massive listings of online books of
        interest to SCAdians, including a number of period sources. Just google:
        Greg Lindahl website

        And prep yourself for more fun than you can stand! :-)

        Arlys
      • Greg Lindahl
        ... Missed? Inconceivable! The main etiquette book you could check is Arena, written in 1520. Here s his entry in the Rendance Bibliography. I believe the
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 11, 2010
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          On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 09:26:55AM +0000, Marianne Perdomo wrote:

          > I was hoping someone here would have encountered something in books of
          > manners or such about the matter, than the dance people might have missed...

          Missed? Inconceivable!

          The main etiquette book you could check is Arena, written in 1520. Here's
          his entry in the Rendance Bibliography. I believe the earlier bassadanza
          sources describe the ladies' reverenza as the same as the men. For that
          you should double-check Crane.

          _Arena, Antonius de_.

          Ad Suos Compagniones Studiantes. Avignon: ca.1520.
          Matt Larsen: This is a treatise on the basse dance and dance
          etiquette, written in Latin. It was apparently intended for
          law students at the University of Avignon, who were familiar
          with some dances but not basse dances. Included are 19 basse
          dances, but no music. A large part of the text is devoted to
          telling "middle class" law students what was and was not
          proper on the dance floor. The instructions which are given
          for steps are minimal and, as usual, far from clear. They are
          also difficult to resolve with instructions from other
          manuals and therefore pose an interesting problem to dance
          historians. It has been noted that the choreographies which
          Arbeau gives for bassedances are included in Arena, which
          has lead to speculation that Arbeau may have used Arena as a
          source for a dance which he himself was not completely
          familiar with. He would certainly have had access to Arena,
          since it was reprinted in many editions over a span of more
          than two centuries, with the last reprint being about 1758.
          Nathan Kronenfeld: According to Pierre Chartrand, this is
          currently available and in print as "A ses compagnons
          etudiant"... Antonius Arena, ed. L'Atelier de danse
          populaire, 4 rue Laterale, 94000 Creteil, France (ISBN:
          2-907567-02-0)
          "Rules of Dancing." Dance Research 4, no. 2 (1986): 3-53.
          Translated by John Guthrie and Marino Zorzi.
          Translation of Ad Suos Compagniones Studientes by Antonius de
          Arena.
          Also see entry of original for comments.

          -- Gregory
        • Marianne Perdomo
          2010/2/11 Greg Lindahl ... Do you mean Tolouze and Brussels? If so what is online seems to describe the demarche and the demarche done with
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 13, 2010
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            2010/2/11 Greg Lindahl <lindahl@...>

            > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 09:26:55AM +0000, Marianne Perdomo wrote:
            >
            > > I was hoping someone here would have encountered something in books of
            > > manners or such about the matter, than the dance people might have
            > missed...
            >
            > Missed? Inconceivable!
            >

            :D Well, I always hope there are other things to discover...


            > The main etiquette book you could check is Arena, written in 1520. Here's
            > his entry in the Rendance Bibliography. I believe the earlier bassadanza
            > sources describe the ladies' reverenza as the same as the men. For that
            > you should double-check Crane.
            >

            Do you mean Tolouze and Brussels? If so what is online seems to describe the
            demarche and the demarche done "with reverence" but it's unclear if women
            should do the same.

            I had long assume they were the same, having been taught that, and seen
            nothing to oppose it, but met someone the other day who challenged this and
            I was wondering if there is indeed clear evidence on the matter.

            I'll try to check Crane next time I have the option...

            Thanks a lot for the pointers!! :)


            Leonor / Marianne


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          • Scott
            MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to those members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you do not top post. Please trim portions of
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 15, 2010
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              MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to those members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you do not top post. Please trim portions of previous posts that do not require repetition. Thank you.
              Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.
              (REPEATED MESSAGES DELETED)

              Remember that courtesy is what a knight owed his equals and superiors.
              Obeisance was what anyone lower owed the knight or nobility.

              Colm Dubh
            • Greg Lindahl
              ... For those of you who are aficionados of my more obscure webpages, Lenore (who asked the original question) did the index of the E codex of the Cantigas de
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 15, 2010
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                On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 07:28:32AM -0800, CLEY wrote:

                > Have you looked at Master Gregory's web page?

                For those of you who are aficionados of my more obscure webpages, Lenore
                (who asked the original question) did the index of the E codex of the
                Cantigas de Santa Maria for me.

                Her question was a good one, and she's not going to find a better
                answer on my webpages than the suggestions I gave her (Arena and
                Crane.)

                -- Gregory
              • Marianne Perdomo
                Greetings! And sorry I left the message in - with my brain it doesn t help that Google Mail often hides such things... And, yes, my whole point of asking here
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 16, 2010
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                  Greetings!

                  And sorry I left the message in - with my brain it doesn't help that Google
                  Mail often hides such things...

                  And, yes, my whole point of asking here was to see if there was anything on
                  the courtesy sources. I've read some, but I'm sure that's not all. Hence my
                  asking here and not on the dance lists...

                  I've not been able to check Arena yet.. the link I follow online seems to be
                  gone. And it'll be a couple of weeks before I can ask to see Crane, as I
                  don't have it myself. :/
                  Going to try to find Arena again now... as I have the day off for Carnival
                  Tuesday/Mardi Gras :)

                  Cheers!


                  Leonor / Marianne


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