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Re: Metallic Threads

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  • tasha_medvedeva
    ... Wouldn t they wiggle and scream? Tasha
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "jeffthegeek1974" <publisher@...> wrote:
      >
      > I am trying to research the authenticity of using metallic threads in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celt.
      >
      >

      Wouldn't they wiggle and scream?

      Tasha
    • jeffthegeek1974
      ... Ouch.... missed a word....should have read ...in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celtic tunic . Never write and work at the same time... not very
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "tasha_medvedeva" <tasha_medvedeva@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "jeffthegeek1974" <publisher@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I am trying to research the authenticity of using metallic threads in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celt.
        > >
        > >
        >
        > Wouldn't they wiggle and scream?
        >
        > Tasha
        >

        Ouch.... missed a word....should have read "...in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celtic tunic". Never write and work at the same time... not very productive.
      • Folo Watkins
        Too busy to track down what I ve read before, but here s a start: http://www.kreinik.com/articles/news.php?newsid=7 http://www.amazon.com/review/RC81PDWS7BRYM
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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          Too busy to track down what I've read before, but here's a start:
          http://www.kreinik.com/articles/news.php?newsid=7
          http://www.amazon.com/review/RC81PDWS7BRYM
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_fiber
          Good luck!

          Cheers, Folo
          www.micelfolcland.org
        • Chris Laning
          ... The problem you start out with, of course, is that there s very little embroidery of *any* kind surviving from that early. Off the top of my head, the
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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            On Sep 25, 2009, at 9:12 AM, jeffthegeek1974 wrote:

            > I am trying to research the authenticity of using metallic threads
            > in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celt. So far the best evidence I
            > can find is from "A SMALLER SOCIAL HISTORY OF ANCIENT
            > IRELAND:Treating of the Government, Military System, and Law;
            > Religion, Learning and Art; Trades, Industries, and Commerce;
            > Manners, Customs, and Domestic Life, of the Ancient Irish People" by
            > PW Joyce written in 1906. This does seem to support the use of
            > metallic threads, however the period is rather vague and ranges from
            > the 6th all the way up to the 12th centuries without distinguishing
            > between the periods.


            The problem you start out with, of course, is that there's very little
            embroidery of *any* kind surviving from that early. Off the top of my
            head, the closest I can come are the St. Cuthbert embroideries (I
            believe 10th century), and the embroideries of Sts. Harlindis and
            Relindis (8th century) -- which at least gets you _somewhat_ closer to
            the 6th ;)

            I'm away from my books at the moment, but IIRC the basic technique for
            creating gold thread (by wrapping a thin strip of gold around silk
            thread) is Roman, so between the two I'd think you could make a good
            case for 6th century gold thread.

            You might, however, consider gold-brocaded tablet-woven trim as your
            decoration of choice, rather than gold embroidery as such. IIRC there
            is pretty good evidence of gold-brocaded tablet-weaving from secular
            garments (for the wealthy), whereas IIRC most of the actual gold
            embroidery that survives seems to have been ecclesiastical. (I think I
            have an article about gold-embroidered borders from a bishop's burial
            in Iceland, for instance). But this is not my area of specialty, so
            that may be only because the church stuff is more likely to be
            preserved and/or more famous ;)

            Hope that helps, for starters -- also, in my limited experience (tried
            it once or twice in classes) if you can tablet weave at all, gold
            brocading is not terribly difficult, and it's very economical of your
            precious gold thread ;)

            ____________________________________________________________

            O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
            + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
            http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
            ____________________________________________________________
          • Quokkaqueen
            Looking at this online version of A Smaller Social History, at: http://www.libraryireland.com/SocialHistoryAncientIreland/Contents.php and the chapter on
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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              Looking at this online version of "A Smaller Social History," at:
              http://www.libraryireland.com/SocialHistoryAncientIreland/Contents.php
              and the chapter on embroidery, at: http://www.libraryireland.com/SocialHistoryAncientIreland/III-XXII-4.php

              Am I right that you're basing your search for goldwork on this paragraph?:

              "Embroidery was also practiced as a separate art or trade by women. An embroiderer kept for her work, among other materials, thread of various colours, as well as silver thread, and a special needle. The design or pattern to be embroidered--as we find recorded and described in the Senchus Mór--was drawn and stamped beforehand, by a designer, on a piece of leather, which the embroiderer placed lying before her and imitated with her needle."

              The Senchus Mór is part of the Brehon Laws, but a quick search of the internet doesn't really give any information about embroidery (there is about different classes of society wearing different colours, but that seems to be about it. Even then, it may be difficult to tell if the colour-coding was being practiced in the 6th century.)

              The earliest embroideries I can think of are in Europe, and from the continent.
              The sleeves of Queen Arnegunde:
              http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6948/arnegunde.html
              The relics of Queen Bathilde:
              http://www.encyclopedie-universelle.com/abbaye%20-%20art%20m%E9rovingien%201-3.html

              Sorry I can't be of much help,

              ~Asfridhr

              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "jeffthegeek1974" <publisher@...> wrote:
              <<snip>>
              > I am trying to research the authenticity of using metallic threads in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celt. So far the best evidence I can find is from "A SMALLER SOCIAL HISTORY OF ANCIENT IRELAND
              <<snip>>
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