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Metallic Threads

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  • jeffthegeek1974
    I am trying to research the authenticity of using metallic threads in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celt. So far the best evidence I can find is from A
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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      I am trying to research the authenticity of using metallic threads in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celt. So far the best evidence I can find is from "A SMALLER SOCIAL HISTORY OF ANCIENT IRELAND:Treating of the Government, Military System, and Law; Religion, Learning and Art; Trades, Industries, and Commerce; Manners, Customs, and Domestic Life, of the Ancient Irish People" by PW Joyce written in 1906. This does seem to support the use of metallic threads, however the period is rather vague and ranges from the 6th all the way up to the 12th centuries without distinguishing between the periods.

      Cú Allaidh
      Heavy Fighter, Sometimes Fencer, New to Archery
      Member of the Bookbinders Guild of Ealdormere
      Crewmember of the Good Ship Crimson Star
      From The Shire of Trinovantia Nova, in the great land of Ealdormere
      mka Jeff
    • tasha_medvedeva
      ... Wouldn t they wiggle and scream? Tasha
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "jeffthegeek1974" <publisher@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am trying to research the authenticity of using metallic threads in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celt.
        >
        >

        Wouldn't they wiggle and scream?

        Tasha
      • jeffthegeek1974
        ... Ouch.... missed a word....should have read ...in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celtic tunic . Never write and work at the same time... not very
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "tasha_medvedeva" <tasha_medvedeva@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "jeffthegeek1974" <publisher@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I am trying to research the authenticity of using metallic threads in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celt.
          > >
          > >
          >
          > Wouldn't they wiggle and scream?
          >
          > Tasha
          >

          Ouch.... missed a word....should have read "...in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celtic tunic". Never write and work at the same time... not very productive.
        • Folo Watkins
          Too busy to track down what I ve read before, but here s a start: http://www.kreinik.com/articles/news.php?newsid=7 http://www.amazon.com/review/RC81PDWS7BRYM
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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            Too busy to track down what I've read before, but here's a start:
            http://www.kreinik.com/articles/news.php?newsid=7
            http://www.amazon.com/review/RC81PDWS7BRYM
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_fiber
            Good luck!

            Cheers, Folo
            www.micelfolcland.org
          • Chris Laning
            ... The problem you start out with, of course, is that there s very little embroidery of *any* kind surviving from that early. Off the top of my head, the
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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              On Sep 25, 2009, at 9:12 AM, jeffthegeek1974 wrote:

              > I am trying to research the authenticity of using metallic threads
              > in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celt. So far the best evidence I
              > can find is from "A SMALLER SOCIAL HISTORY OF ANCIENT
              > IRELAND:Treating of the Government, Military System, and Law;
              > Religion, Learning and Art; Trades, Industries, and Commerce;
              > Manners, Customs, and Domestic Life, of the Ancient Irish People" by
              > PW Joyce written in 1906. This does seem to support the use of
              > metallic threads, however the period is rather vague and ranges from
              > the 6th all the way up to the 12th centuries without distinguishing
              > between the periods.


              The problem you start out with, of course, is that there's very little
              embroidery of *any* kind surviving from that early. Off the top of my
              head, the closest I can come are the St. Cuthbert embroideries (I
              believe 10th century), and the embroideries of Sts. Harlindis and
              Relindis (8th century) -- which at least gets you _somewhat_ closer to
              the 6th ;)

              I'm away from my books at the moment, but IIRC the basic technique for
              creating gold thread (by wrapping a thin strip of gold around silk
              thread) is Roman, so between the two I'd think you could make a good
              case for 6th century gold thread.

              You might, however, consider gold-brocaded tablet-woven trim as your
              decoration of choice, rather than gold embroidery as such. IIRC there
              is pretty good evidence of gold-brocaded tablet-weaving from secular
              garments (for the wealthy), whereas IIRC most of the actual gold
              embroidery that survives seems to have been ecclesiastical. (I think I
              have an article about gold-embroidered borders from a bishop's burial
              in Iceland, for instance). But this is not my area of specialty, so
              that may be only because the church stuff is more likely to be
              preserved and/or more famous ;)

              Hope that helps, for starters -- also, in my limited experience (tried
              it once or twice in classes) if you can tablet weave at all, gold
              brocading is not terribly difficult, and it's very economical of your
              precious gold thread ;)

              ____________________________________________________________

              O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
              + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
              http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
              ____________________________________________________________
            • Quokkaqueen
              Looking at this online version of A Smaller Social History, at: http://www.libraryireland.com/SocialHistoryAncientIreland/Contents.php and the chapter on
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 25, 2009
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                Looking at this online version of "A Smaller Social History," at:
                http://www.libraryireland.com/SocialHistoryAncientIreland/Contents.php
                and the chapter on embroidery, at: http://www.libraryireland.com/SocialHistoryAncientIreland/III-XXII-4.php

                Am I right that you're basing your search for goldwork on this paragraph?:

                "Embroidery was also practiced as a separate art or trade by women. An embroiderer kept for her work, among other materials, thread of various colours, as well as silver thread, and a special needle. The design or pattern to be embroidered--as we find recorded and described in the Senchus Mór--was drawn and stamped beforehand, by a designer, on a piece of leather, which the embroiderer placed lying before her and imitated with her needle."

                The Senchus Mór is part of the Brehon Laws, but a quick search of the internet doesn't really give any information about embroidery (there is about different classes of society wearing different colours, but that seems to be about it. Even then, it may be difficult to tell if the colour-coding was being practiced in the 6th century.)

                The earliest embroideries I can think of are in Europe, and from the continent.
                The sleeves of Queen Arnegunde:
                http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6948/arnegunde.html
                The relics of Queen Bathilde:
                http://www.encyclopedie-universelle.com/abbaye%20-%20art%20m%E9rovingien%201-3.html

                Sorry I can't be of much help,

                ~Asfridhr

                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "jeffthegeek1974" <publisher@...> wrote:
                <<snip>>
                > I am trying to research the authenticity of using metallic threads in embroidering a 6th century Irish Celt. So far the best evidence I can find is from "A SMALLER SOCIAL HISTORY OF ANCIENT IRELAND
                <<snip>>
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