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Silk tunics

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  • JL Badgley
    Does anyone know of evidence for silk tunics and what kind of silk was used? I have access to a ton of silk--it is about the weight of lightweight cotton, and
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 9, 2009
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      Does anyone know of evidence for silk tunics and what kind of silk was used?

      I have access to a ton of silk--it is about the weight of lightweight
      cotton, and semi-opaque (definitely need a lining or an undershirt).
      Would that have been used for tunics or other garments? Does anyone
      have good research points to investigate?


      -Ii

      PS: I'll go looking for the footed stocking evidence when I get a
      chance. Just haven't had much time with my sources. Too busy getting
      ready for the group's first ever event!
    • gianottadallafiora
      ... I have seen illustrations of sheer white silk tunics being worn by Muslim women in Spain; they are depicted being indoors, however, and it s quite obvious
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 10, 2009
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
        >
        > Does anyone know of evidence for silk tunics and what kind of silk was used?
        >
        > I have access to a ton of silk--it is about the weight of lightweight
        > cotton, and semi-opaque (definitely need a lining or an undershirt).
        > Would that have been used for tunics or other garments? Does anyone
        > have good research points to investigate?
        >
        >
        > -Ii
        >
        > PS: I'll go looking for the footed stocking evidence when I get a
        > chance. Just haven't had much time with my sources. Too busy getting
        > ready for the group's first ever event!
        >

        I have seen illustrations of sheer white silk tunics being worn by Muslim women in Spain; they are depicted being indoors, however, and it's quite obvious they would not have been seen outside the house like this.

        One of the dancers in the Capella Palatina muqarna is depicted in a very full, flowing tunic that moves and clings to her curves in a way fine silk or linen would.

        Normal silk tunic weight, however, is heavier; twill-woven, brocaded, sometimes woven with metallic threads, definitely not sheer. Most people today use a fine dupioni as a substitute, and if they can get hold of it, silk brocade (not Asian patterns, think ecclesiastical) for the collar and cuffs.

        It sounds like your silk would make a lovely undertunic or chemise, though.

        YIS,
        Adelisa di Salerno
      • Samia al-Kaslaania
        ... Ii, You might be describing habotai or China silk , a lightweight silk that is often used as linings in modern clothing. Habotai is enormously hot for
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 10, 2009
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          JL Badgley wrote:
          > Does anyone know of evidence for silk tunics and what kind of silk was used?
          >
          > I have access to a ton of silk--it is about the weight of lightweight
          > cotton, and semi-opaque (definitely need a lining or an undershirt).
          > Would that have been used for tunics or other garments? Does anyone
          > have good research points to investigate?
          >
          Ii,
          You might be describing habotai or "China silk", a lightweight silk that
          is often used as linings in modern clothing. Habotai is enormously hot
          for layering, FYI.

          There are detailed accounts of silks used in the Middle East, including
          50 or more distinct types, some of which can't be identified still.
          Yours is likely to have been used in period, but it's a question of how.

          If it is habotai, could you use it for making banners or wall hangings?
          Pennants for the lists field? Silk is quite easy to dye with Jacquard
          Acid Dyes (the acid is vinegar).

          Samia
        • wodeford
          ... The original poster is in Thailand. If it s anything like the silk he sent me last Christmas. Imagine a dupioni fine enough to read newsprint through and
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 10, 2009
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Samia al-Kaslaania <samia@...> wrote:
            > If it is habotai, could you use it for making banners or wall hangings?
            > Pennants for the lists field? Silk is quite easy to dye with Jacquard
            > Acid Dyes (the acid is vinegar).

            The original poster is in Thailand. If it's anything like the silk he sent me last Christmas. Imagine a dupioni fine enough to read newsprint through and you'll have an idea of the weight/hand.

            Saionji no Hanae
            West Kingdom
          • gianottadallafiora
            ... That sounds like perfect undertunic silk, if it s anything like the Thai silk scarf I have. Many Indian saris are woven in that weight too. When I
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 10, 2009
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              <snip>
              > The original poster is in Thailand. If it's anything like the silk he sent me last Christmas. Imagine a dupioni fine enough to read newsprint through and you'll have an idea of the weight/hand.
              >
              > Saionji no Hanae
              > West Kingdom

              That sounds like perfect undertunic silk, if it's anything like the Thai silk scarf I have.

              Many Indian saris are woven in that weight too. When I use them for costume pieces, I line them well, or wear an opaque linen undertunic.

              It sounds like it would make a fantastic summerweight tunic or bliaut. One thing I do recall from some of my reading is that at least in Sicily, there were different grades and weights of silk being produced outside of Palermo; some of them were cheaper exports. Only the heavy brocade pieces survived, though, so I have no idea what these lesser grades of silk fabric looked like, or how they were woven. I would imagine there were sheer silks being produced, not just brocades. But what types of clothing were constructed from them?

              Adelisa
            • wodeford
              ... Aha, memory jog achieved: http://www.virtue.to/articles/extant.html There are two silk tunics in here. Saionji no Hanae West Kingdom
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 10, 2009
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                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
                >
                > Does anyone know of evidence for silk tunics and what kind of silk was used?

                Aha, memory jog achieved:
                http://www.virtue.to/articles/extant.html

                There are two silk tunics in here.

                Saionji no Hanae
                West Kingdom
              • JL Badgley
                ... I had seen that, and then completely forgotten about it! It s strange: I just rarely think of this kind of silk for things western until it came crunch
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 10, 2009
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                  On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:40 AM, wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Does anyone know of evidence for silk tunics and what kind of silk was used?
                  >
                  > Aha, memory jog achieved:
                  > http://www.virtue.to/articles/extant.html
                  >
                  > There are two silk tunics in here.
                  >
                  I had seen that, and then completely forgotten about it! It's
                  strange: I just rarely think of this kind of silk for things western
                  until it came crunch time and I pulled out all of the fabric in the
                  apartment--lots of silks, but hardly any linens, cottons, and no
                  wools. I still want to get some good linens, both for lining and
                  regular garments, but we'll have to see how it goes.

                  -Ii/E.
                • Heather Rose Jones
                  I m reading this belatedly (since very little of Yellowstone Park has net access), so I hope it s still pertinent. If you check out the database of surviving
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 12, 2009
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                    I'm reading this belatedly (since very little of Yellowstone Park has
                    net access), so I hope it's still pertinent.

                    If you check out the database of surviving historic garments on my web
                    site (heatherrosejones.com), one of the things you can search on is
                    "fabric type = silk" + "general garment class = body garment". You
                    can narrow the search down further if you get too many results. While
                    the site itself won't tell you what type of silk fabric was involved,
                    it provides a bibliography of publications that mention the garment,
                    which will have more information.

                    Heather Rose Jones

                    On Sep 9, 2009, at 10:39 PM, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:

                    > Does anyone know of evidence for silk tunics and what kind of silk
                    > was used?
                    >
                    > I have access to a ton of silk--it is about the weight of lightweight
                    > cotton, and semi-opaque (definitely need a lining or an undershirt).
                    > Would that have been used for tunics or other garments? Does anyone
                    > have good research points to investigate?
                    >
                    >
                    > -Ii
                    >
                    > PS: I'll go looking for the footed stocking evidence when I get a
                    > chance. Just haven't had much time with my sources. Too busy getting
                    > ready for the group's first ever event!
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > ----------------------------------------------------
                    > This is the Authentic SCA eGroupYahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • JL Badgley
                    On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Heather Rose Jones ... Nice! I like what you are doing. I could definitely see this being handy for things. -Ii
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 12, 2009
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                      On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Heather Rose Jones
                      <heather.jones@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I'm reading this belatedly (since very little of Yellowstone Park has
                      > net access), so I hope it's still pertinent.
                      >
                      > If you check out the database of surviving historic garments on my web
                      > site (heatherrosejones.com), one of the things you can search on is
                      > "fabric type = silk" + "general garment class = body garment". You
                      > can narrow the search down further if you get too many results. While
                      > the site itself won't tell you what type of silk fabric was involved,
                      > it provides a bibliography of publications that mention the garment,
                      > which will have more information.
                      >
                      Nice! I like what you are doing. I could definitely see this being
                      handy for things.

                      -Ii
                    • Ann Franchi
                      MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to the many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top-post (stick your response to the top
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 12, 2009
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                        MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to the many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top-post (stick your response to the top of one or more messages that came before it). Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Timezone Moderator.
                        (MESSAGE ORDER REVERSED, EDITED)

                        On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:39 AM, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:

                        > Just haven't had much time with my sources. Too busy getting
                        > ready for the group's first ever event!
                        >

                        Congratulations on your group's first ever event!!

                        How did it go?

                        Anitra
                      • Lisa Briner Kilmer
                        I have found several yards of sueded silk in my stash of pre-garb. Is this finish too modern for our our purposes? Merci, Ysabel [Non-text portions of this
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 13, 2009
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                          I have found several yards of sueded silk in my stash of pre-garb. Is this finish too modern for our our purposes?

                          Merci,
                          Ysabel





















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • JL Badgley
                          ... Heh... not until Oct 24th. But with literally starting from the ground up, there are tunics to sew, tabards to prepare, details to iron out, etc... all
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 14, 2009
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                            On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Ann Franchi <AnitraF@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:39 AM, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Just haven't had much time with my sources. Too busy getting
                            > > ready for the group's first ever event!
                            > >
                            >
                            > Congratulations on your group's first ever event!!
                            >
                            > How did it go?
                            >
                            Heh... not until Oct 24th. But with literally starting from the
                            ground up, there are tunics to sew, tabards to prepare, details to
                            iron out, etc... all while teaching new SCAdians about fighting and
                            how to get their own kit together.


                            -Ii
                          • Ann Franchi
                            MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to the many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top-post (stick your response to the top
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 14, 2009
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                              MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to the many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top-post (stick your response to the top of one or more messages that came before it). Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Timezone Moderator.
                              (MESSAGE ORDER REVERSED, EDITED)
                              On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:39 AM, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:

                              Have you checked Stefan's Florilegium? There are articles there on putting
                              kit together on a budget.

                              Anitra

                              On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:39 AM, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:

                              > Heh... not until Oct 24th. But with literally starting from the
                              > ground up, there are tunics to sew, tabards to prepare, details to
                              > iron out, etc... all while teaching new SCAdians about fighting and
                              > how to get their own kit together.
                              >
                              > -Ii
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