Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Authentic_SCA] Questions about 12th C artwork

Expand Messages
  • Tiffany Brown
    2009/8/25 Karen Tricomo ... Well, I may not be the best person to ask, because I ve spent so long looking at 12th C western european
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 24, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      2009/8/25 Karen Tricomo <piccolopwr@...>

      > Does anyone know if art in the 12th Century EVER looked like an actual
      > person? As in, a life-like attempt at a portrait? Or was it all that
      > blocky, out-of-proportion stuff you see in the stained glass works and
      > tapestries?
      >

      Well, I may not be the best person to ask, because I've spent so long
      looking at 12th C western european artwork that I feel I can read it fairly
      naturally. But, I'd say good (there's plenty of bad stuff) 12th C art isn't
      totally out of proportion (except the anglo saxon elongation in england till
      1150), just using a different astehetic and proportion rules, but if by
      blocky you mean a comic book like style, then I'd definately agree. And just
      as with comics, if an individual is to be identified, their traits are
      exagerated.

      Some of the most naturalistic 12thC work to my mind is in germany in the
      late 12th C. The manuscripts are more rounded and with more care to
      proportion, but the real acknowledeged leader in artwork at this time-plkace
      was metalwork. You can find both 3D sculptures, as well as low releif and
      2D inscriptions (or whatever technique they use).
      http://www.bildindex.de/is a good site to search to find examples
      (there will be bad examples too).
      I think the german metalwork really came into it's own in realism around
      1215, but you should be able to find some examples earlier.


      Teffania



      --
      . ___
      {o,o} The blog you are not looking for
      |)__) is definitely not at
      -"-"- http://teffania.blogspot.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Chris Laning
      ... Complicating this picture, of course, is that before approximately the 15th century, a lot of people were depicted more as idealizations of their roles
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 26, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        On Aug 24, 2009, at 12:40 PM, Karen Tricomo wrote:

        > Does anyone know if art in the 12th Century EVER looked like an
        > actual person? As in, a life-like attempt at a portrait? Or was it
        > all that blocky, out-of-proportion stuff you see in the stained
        > glass works and tapestries?


        Complicating this picture, of course, is that before approximately the
        15th century, a lot of people were depicted more as idealizations of
        their roles than as actual "portraits" or what we would consider
        "likenesses." The characters in a tapestry are usually identified by
        name labels, for instance, because in most cases there really wasn't
        an effort made to make King Henry look like the real King Henry (who
        few people would ever see in person anyway). So the designers/weavers/
        embroiderers would draw a picture of an Ideal Kingly Person and label
        it "Henricus."

        Looking at portraits of the Kings of England, for instance, the
        earliest ones that look like they were meant to show a true likeness
        might be in the range of Henry IV through VI (1400-1450 or so).

        (Corrections welcome, this is off the top of my head...)
        ____________________________________________________________

        O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
        + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
        http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
        ____________________________________________________________
      • Folo Watkins
        ... I had been told that the first to have a realistic portrait was Richard II in the late 14C; portraits that I ve seen of him certainly looks realistic.
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 26, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          >Looking at portraits of the Kings of England, for instance, the
          >earliest ones that look like they were meant to show a true likeness
          >might be in the range of Henry IV through VI (1400-1450 or so).

          I had been told that the first to have a realistic portrait was
          Richard II in the late 14C; portraits that I've seen of him certainly
          looks realistic.

          Cheers, Folo
        • Donata Bonacorsi
          ... Unless you look outside of England. The donor portrait in the Arena Chapel by Giotto, it dates to 1305. It can be argued that the Renaissance started with
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 27, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:14 AM, Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com wrote:

            > Complicating this picture, of course, is that before approximately the
            > 15th century, a lot of people were depicted more as idealizations of
            > their roles than as actual "portraits" or what we would consider
            > "likenesses." The characters in a tapestry are usually identified by
            > name labels, for instance, because in most cases there really wasn't
            > an effort made to make King Henry look like the real King Henry (who
            > few people would ever see in person anyway). So the designers/weavers/
            > embroiderers would draw a picture of an Ideal Kingly Person and label
            > it "Henricus."


            Unless you look outside of England.

            The donor portrait in the Arena Chapel by Giotto, it dates to 1305. It
            can be argued that the Renaissance started with Giotto, Dante, and
            Petrach for some in Florence and other city-states in what is now the
            country of Italy. (there are more examples, but Giotto is what came to
            mind)

            Maestra Donata Bonacorsi,
            West



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ann Franchi
            MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to those members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you do not top post. Please trim portions of
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 29, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to those members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you do not top post. Please trim portions of previous posts that do not require repetition. Thank you.
              Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

              (REPEATED MESSAGE DELETED)

              I recently acquired a book on the hsitory of Caricature.
              Interestingly, early caricatures were also labeled with the name of
              the person being caricatured, even when it was an extremely realistic
              depiction. This was because, in the absence of TV, most people would
              not be familiar with the persons enough to recognise them.

              Anitra
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.