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Missing my "Tudor Tailor"....

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  • JL Badgley
    I was wondering if anyone could assist me; I m here in Bangkok and trying to get some new folks off on the right foot. In particular, I want to get them used
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 26, 2009
      I was wondering if anyone could assist me; I'm here in Bangkok and
      trying to get some new folks off on the right foot. In particular, I
      want to get them used to dressing in something other than a T-tunic:
      not overly difficult as they showed up to our place with some rather
      remarkable clothing and armor, apparently having been LARPing and
      being part of the cosplay scene here for some time, combined with an
      interest in European history.

      One of them has described the clothing he'd like to go for--the nice
      big Tudor look (Henry VIII, and the famous portrait of "The
      Ambassadors"). My problem is that my copy of "The Tudor Tailor" is
      missing--I'm pretty sure it got left back in storage when we moved
      over here (not sure why). I was wondering if anyone out there could
      help me get some patterns out of it--particularly for the early
      Tudor's men's outfits. I'd prefer not to buy another copy, if
      possible, and being overseas, I don't have the same access to
      libraries I would back home. Alternatively, if anyone knows of a good
      pattern available online, I'd love to see it. Anything we can do to
      help these gentlemen get properly set up.

      -E. Logan
    • Diane Sawyer Dooley
      ... {snip} ... Why? T-tunics are immaculately period when cut correctly. I *hate* it when people imply that tunics are somehow lesser garb, garb that only
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 26, 2009
        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
        >
        > I was wondering if anyone could assist me; I'm here in Bangkok and
        > trying to get some new folks off on the right foot. In particular, I
        > want to get them used to dressing in something other than a T-tunic:
        {snip}
        >
        > -E. Logan
        >


        Why? T-tunics are immaculately period when cut correctly. I *hate* it when people imply that tunics are somehow "lesser" garb, garb that only the rankest newbies wear. If they want something other than tunics, that's fine, but don't push them that way just because *you* don't like it or you think they ought to "do better".

        Tasha
        why yes, that is a bright, shiny,
        candy-colored hot button, why do you ask?
      • JL Badgley
        On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Diane Sawyer ... Sorry, I have no problem with a properly done tunic (and I may be thinking of a different description of
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 26, 2009
          On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Diane Sawyer
          Dooley<tasha_medvedeva@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> I was wondering if anyone could assist me; I'm here in Bangkok and
          >> trying to get some new folks off on the right foot. In particular, I
          >> want to get them used to dressing in something other than a T-tunic:
          > {snip}
          >>
          >> -E. Logan
          >>
          >
          > Why? T-tunics are immaculately period when cut correctly. I *hate* it when
          > people imply that tunics are somehow "lesser" garb, garb that only the
          > rankest newbies wear. If they want something other than tunics, that's fine,
          > but don't push them that way just because *you* don't like it or you think
          > they ought to "do better".

          Sorry, I have no problem with a properly done tunic (and I may be
          thinking of a different description of "t-tunic"), but this particular
          person is very much interested in stuff for which a simple tunic is
          not appropriate. I don't want to just hand him an SCA t-tunic when he
          wants Tudor.

          Now, there is another person who wants early Norse/"viking" and for
          him we're looking at more of a standard tunic. Ditto with gambesons,
          etc. But I do believe that variety is the spice of life, and if I can
          get them interested in looking like paintings, then I want to
          encourage that an not just fall back to what is easy.


          -EGL
        • Diane Sawyer Dooley
          ... {snip} ... Absolutely the guy who wants Tudor should get Tudor, etc etc. The unfortunate thing is that there is no handy word that differentiates between
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 26, 2009
            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Diane Sawyer
            > Dooley<tasha_medvedeva@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, JL Badgley <tatsushu@> wrote:
            > >>
            > >> I was wondering if anyone could assist me; I'm here in Bangkok and
            > >> trying to get some new folks off on the right foot. In particular, I
            > >> want to get them used to dressing in something other than a T-tunic:
            > > {snip}
            > >>
            > >> -E. Logan
            > >>
            > >
            > > Why? T-tunics are immaculately period when cut correctly.
            {snip}
            >
            > Sorry, I have no problem with a properly done tunic (and I may be
            > thinking of a different description of "t-tunic"), but this particular
            > person is very much interested in stuff for which a simple tunic is
            > not appropriate. I don't want to just hand him an SCA t-tunic when he
            > wants Tudor.
            >
            > Now, there is another person who wants early Norse/"viking" and for
            > him we're looking at more of a standard tunic. Ditto with gambesons,
            > etc. But I do believe that variety is the spice of life, and if I can
            > get them interested in looking like paintings, then I want to
            > encourage that an not just fall back to what is easy.
            >
            >
            > -EGL
            >

            Absolutely the guy who wants Tudor should get Tudor, etc etc. The unfortunate thing is that there is no handy word that differentiates between properly cut period tunics and the SCA abomination "lay down a dress shirt on some folded fabric and trace" t-tunic. Drives me up a freaking TREE. You may have noticed...

            Tasha
          • calibridseagodess
            MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to the many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top-post (stick your response to the top
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 26, 2009
              MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to the many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top-post (stick your response to the top of one or more messages that came before it). Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Timezone Moderator.
              (REPEATED MESSAGES DELETED)

              I am new to this group and since you mentioned the T-tunic what is the properly cut T-tunic. My son and daughter want to fight so I thought that the T-tunic would be good to start with we are 115 century irish.
              thank you in advance for the help. Cali
            • wodeford
              ... Welcome, Cali. Be sure to visit the Links and Files sections of the group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Authentic_SCA/links
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 26, 2009
                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "calibridseagodess" <calibridseagodess@...> wrote:
                >
                > I am new to this group and since you mentioned the T-tunic what is the properly cut T-tunic.

                Welcome, Cali.

                Be sure to visit the Links and Files sections of the group at
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Authentic_SCA/links
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Authentic_SCA/files

                There's a "T-Tunics The Period Way" article in there.
                http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML

                http://www.virtue.to/articles/tunic_worksheet.html is also useful.

                Enjoy,
                Jehanne de Wodeford
                West Kingdom
              • quokkaqueen
                ... The unfortunate thing is that there is no handy word that differentiates between properly cut period tunics and the SCA abomination lay down a
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 27, 2009
                  --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Sawyer Dooley" <tasha_medvedeva@...> wrote:
                  <<snip>>
                  The unfortunate thing is that there is no handy word that differentiates between properly cut period tunics and the SCA abomination "lay down a dress shirt on some folded fabric and trace" t-tunic. Drives me up a freaking TREE. You may have noticed...
                  >
                  > Tasha
                  >

                  Kyrtle perhaps?
                  (Of course, there is the problem then, that the word 'kirtle/kyrtle' has different meanings attached, depending on the century and what have you.) I've also seen online that there seems to be some sort of fine distinction between a _t-tunic_ where you cut around a T-shape, and a _tunic_, where you cut and piece. But I may be mistaken, and it probably varies according to your local costuming population.

                  ~Asfridhr
                • Marianne Perdomo
                  2009/7/27 quokkaqueen ... How about just calling it a tunic or medieval tunic ? Good old latin word without the modern T- and
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 27, 2009
                    2009/7/27 quokkaqueen <quokkaqueen@...>

                    > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Sawyer Dooley"
                    > <tasha_medvedeva@...> wrote:
                    > <<snip>>
                    > The unfortunate thing is that there is no handy word that differentiates
                    > between properly cut period tunics and the SCA abomination "lay down a dress
                    > shirt on some folded fabric and trace" t-tunic. Drives me up a freaking
                    > TREE. You may have noticed...


                    How about just calling it a "tunic" or "medieval tunic"? Good old latin word
                    without the modern "T-" and should be ereasily understood in context.

                    Cheers!


                    Leonor


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • CLEY
                    MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to the many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top-post (stick your response to the top
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 27, 2009
                      MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to the many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top-post (stick your response to the top of one or more messages that came before it). Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Timezone Moderator.
                      (REPEATED MESSAGES DELETED)

                      Marianne Perdomo wrote:
                      One is real clothing. ;-)
                    • Elizabeth Walpole
                      ... From: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of calibridseagodess Sent: Monday, 27 July 2009 3:16 PM To:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 27, 2009
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of calibridseagodess
                        Sent: Monday, 27 July 2009 3:16 PM
                        To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Missing my "Tudor Tailor"....

                        I am new to this group and since you mentioned the T-tunic what is the
                        properly cut T-tunic. My son and daughter want to fight so I thought that
                        the T-tunic would be good to start with we are 115 century irish.
                        thank you in advance for the help. Cali
                        ------------------------------------

                        Try this website http://www.virtue.to/articles/tunic_worksheet.html for good
                        instructions on how to make a tunic in the period style
                        Elizabeth
                        -----------------------------------------
                        Elizabeth Walpole | Elizabeth Beaumont
                        Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac
                        http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/
                      • Marianne Perdomo
                        ... Yes, but real clothing is ambiguous unless in context, and then real may be a word too much. It d just be your clothing. :) Or perhaps your everyday
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 28, 2009
                          >
                          > One is real clothing. ;-)
                          >

                          Yes, but "real clothing" is ambiguous unless in context, and then "real" may
                          be a word too much. It'd just be your clothing. :) Or perhaps your everyday
                          clothing, best clothing, etc...

                          But if we're talking of methods of construction, details, etc. it makes
                          sense to use specialized terms that are meaningful to us now: "burgundian
                          dress", "corded saya", "St. Louis shirt",...

                          My personal opinion, anyway... :)

                          Cheers!


                          Leonor


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Rosie (aka Nawojka)
                          ... Perhaps the gentleman needs to fund his own hobby. If he s that set on having Tudor, he ought to be willing to buy the book. I can well understand newbies
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 28, 2009
                            > One of them has described the clothing he'd like to go for--the nice
                            > big Tudor look (Henry VIII, and the famous portrait of "The
                            > Ambassadors"). My problem is that my copy of "The Tudor Tailor" is
                            > missing-- I'd prefer not to buy another copy, if
                            > possible, and being overseas, I don't have the same access to
                            > libraries I would back home.

                            Perhaps the gentleman needs to fund his own hobby. If he's that set on having Tudor, he ought to be willing to buy the book. I can well understand newbies not being that committed, but there's no reason for you to show more commitment than him by buying another book. I don't know about any free info online, but I wouldn't know even if there was. I can't sew that well!!

                            Nawojka
                          • JL Badgley
                            On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Rosie (aka ... I *did* buy the book--it is in storage back home because my current apartment didn t have room for my entire
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 28, 2009
                              On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Rosie (aka
                              Nawojka)<Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Perhaps the gentleman needs to fund his own hobby. If he's that set on
                              > having Tudor, he ought to be willing to buy the book. I can well understand
                              > newbies not being that committed, but there's no reason for you to show more
                              > commitment than him by buying another book. I don't know about any free info
                              > online, but I wouldn't know even if there was. I can't sew that well!!
                              >
                              I *did* buy the book--it is in storage back home because my current
                              apartment didn't have room for my entire library. If I had it with
                              me, I could easily reference it and help this gentleman out. And I'm
                              trying to encourage a newcomer in a country where a decent wage can be
                              less than $1/hour, though materials and labor are cheap.

                              He's already shelling out money for a membership (which, due to
                              economies of scale, effectively costs him about twice what we pay in
                              other countries, if not more), armour, clothing, time, etc. All this
                              to play with a group of maybe 5 to 10 people where they likely won't
                              see any hint of a royal crown until they are big enough for a
                              principality. They are very enthusiastic and more than willing to
                              help, but this isn't a matter of commitment on his part.


                              -EGL
                            • Rosie (aka Nawojka)
                              I m ... My appologies. I don t suppose you could raise enough for a group copy if everyone put in? It seems to be cheapest at Better World Books, from my quick
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 29, 2009
                                I'm
                                > trying to encourage a newcomer in a country where a decent wage can be
                                > less than $1/hour, though materials and labor are cheap.
                                >
                                > He's already shelling out money for a membership (which, due to
                                > economies of scale, effectively costs him about twice what we pay in
                                > other countries, if not more), armour, clothing, time, etc. All this
                                > to play with a group of maybe 5 to 10 people where they likely won't
                                > see any hint of a royal crown until they are big enough for a
                                > principality. They are very enthusiastic and more than willing to
                                > help, but this isn't a matter of commitment on his part.

                                My appologies. I don't suppose you could raise enough for a group copy if everyone put in? It seems to be cheapest at Better World Books, from my quick search.

                                Nawojka
                              • Ann Franchi
                                Caveat Emptor - a personal experience. I bought a book from Better World Books. It didn t arrive in the time stated. I emailed them about a week later - they
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 30, 2009
                                  Caveat Emptor - a personal experience.

                                  I bought a book from Better World Books.

                                  It didn't arrive in the time stated.

                                  I emailed them about a week later - they said 'Oh, wait another week
                                  to see if it comes in.'

                                  It didn't.

                                  I emailed them again - they (rather grudgingly, I thought) refunded my money.

                                  Disclaimers;

                                  1) I paid with an Amazon.com gift certificate that I won from Monster.com
                                  2) This is the _only_ time I have dealt with Better World Books - YMMV

                                  Anitra

                                  On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Rosie (aka
                                  Nawojka)<Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I'm
                                  >> trying to encourage a newcomer in a country where a decent wage can be
                                  >> less than $1/hour, though materials and labor are cheap.
                                  >>
                                  >> He's already shelling out money for a membership (which, due to
                                  >> economies of scale, effectively costs him about twice what we pay in
                                  >> other countries, if not more), armour, clothing, time, etc. All this
                                  >> to play with a group of maybe 5 to 10 people where they likely won't
                                  >> see any hint of a royal crown until they are big enough for a
                                  >> principality. They are very enthusiastic and more than willing to
                                  >> help, but this isn't a matter of commitment on his part.
                                  >
                                  > My appologies. I don't suppose you could raise enough for a group copy if
                                  > everyone put in? It seems to be cheapest at Better World Books, from my
                                  > quick search.
                                  >
                                  > Nawojka
                                  >
                                  >



                                  --
                                  "Some people weave burlap into the fabric of our lives, and some weave gold
                                  thread. Both contribute to make the whole picture beautiful and unique."
                                  Anonymous
                                • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                                  Imange, if you can, how likely that would be for you, if it cost $500 to 1000~! Labhaoise
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 31, 2009
                                    Imange, if you can, how likely that would be for you, if it cost $500 to 1000~!
                                    Labhaoise

                                    > My appologies. I don't suppose you could raise enough for a group copy if everyone put in? It seems to be cheapest at Better World Books, from my quick search.
                                    >
                                    > Nawojka
                                    >
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