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Leather hosen?

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  • Sarah Natividad
    Pray excuse my letter if I have made mistakes, I m relatively new to medieval sewing. I want to make my son some hosen. However, this is a child with a
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 12 2:23 PM
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      Pray excuse my letter if I have made mistakes, I'm relatively new to
      medieval sewing.

      I want to make my son some hosen. However, this is a child with a horrible
      reputation for tearing out the knees of his pants. I swear that brand new
      pants, when they find out they're destined for his drawer, rip out their own
      knees in despair. :) I thought maybe a lightweight leather would be a more
      durable material for hosen for him. Are there records of leather hosen? If
      so, in what period/place were they used, what colors were used, and does
      anyone have any recommendations for a type of leather? We do Portugal in
      1485 for court wear, but for his "play clothes" we just dress him in
      T-tunics because he grows so fast that I can't keep up with the quantity of
      sewing. (That's why I'd rather not patch cloth hosen-- too much sewing and
      he'll just rip them out again in short order.)

      Obrigada,
      Lianor

      --
      Sarah Natividad
      http://www.curious-workmanship.com
      http://organicbabyfarm.blogspot.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
      In a message dated 3/12/2009 6:01:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sarah.natividad@gmail.com writes:
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 12 3:30 PM
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        In a message dated 3/12/2009 6:01:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        sarah.natividad@... writes:

        <<I want to make my son some hosen. However, this is a child with a horrible
        reputation for tearing out the knees of his pants. I swear that brand new
        pants, when they find out they're destined for his drawer, rip out their own
        knees in despair. :) I thought maybe a lightweight leather would be a more
        durable material for hosen for him. Are there records of leather hosen? If
        so, in what period/place were they used, what colors were used, and does
        anyone have any recommendations for a type of leather? We do Portugal in
        1485 for court wear, but for his "play clothes" we just dress him in
        T-tunics because he grows so fast that I can't keep up with the quantity of
        sewing. (That's why I'd rather not patch cloth hosen-- too much sewing and
        he'll just rip them out again in short order.)>>

        I understand completely as my 4-year-old son is also murder on the knees of
        his pants. I doubt that you would find evidence of leather hosen, as the
        material for hosen needs to have some stretch to it to fit closely, and only a very
        thin leather would give you that - which he would likely wear through nearly
        as quickly.
        Honestly, I buy girls leggings/stretch pants or boys sweat pants from the
        thrift store for Michael to wear as hosen. That way, when he wears them out it
        only costs me a dollar or two and very little time to replace them (the hardest
        part is finding solid color girl's leggings - last time I found a red pair
        and a black pair with little scallop stitching on the bottoms, which I simply
        cut off).


        Brangwayna Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA
        **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Elizabeth Walpole
        ... From: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Natividad Sent: Friday, 13 March 2009 8:24 AM To:
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 12 3:50 PM
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          -----Original Message-----
          From: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of Sarah Natividad
          Sent: Friday, 13 March 2009 8:24 AM
          To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Leather hosen?

          Pray excuse my letter if I have made mistakes, I'm relatively new to
          medieval sewing.

          I want to make my son some hosen. However, this is a child with a horrible
          reputation for tearing out the knees of his pants. I swear that brand new
          pants, when they find out they're destined for his drawer, rip out their own
          knees in despair. :) I thought maybe a lightweight leather would be a more
          durable material for hosen for him. Are there records of leather hosen? If
          so, in what period/place were they used, what colors were used, and does
          anyone have any recommendations for a type of leather? <snip>
          Obrigada,
          Lianor

          ------------------------------------

          I have not heard of leather hosen but I think that if you're willing to
          ignore authenticity it would be much more cost effective to sew leather
          patches over the knees of his cloth hosen before he gets a chance to wear
          them. And on a preventative note, does he do a lot of boffer fighting with
          other kids? I've seen a lot of kids (and adult heavy fighters too :/)
          'walking' on their knees when they have been legged and this is the most
          common way I have seen kids destroying the knees of their garb, you need to
          make it clear to him and his friends (and any heavy fighters you can) that
          the point of being legged is that you cannot move. Try to get local marshals
          and other influential people on your side to discourage it in the adults so
          you can have a better chance of stopping it in the kids fighting too.
          HTH
          Elizabeth
          -----------------------------------------
          Elizabeth Walpole | Elizabeth Beaumont
          Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac
          http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/
        • Derek Estabrook
          Moderator note: Please sign all messages to this list. Thank you. Despina de la moderator I would say leather knee patchwork would be the most appropriate for
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 12 4:01 PM
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            Moderator note: Please sign all messages to this list. Thank you. Despina de la moderator

            I would say leather knee patchwork would be the most appropriate for a child to have. All leather hosen are not likely as I have seen no evidence of leather being a material for these (depending on the culture leather had certain functions and using it for items such as cloaks, etc. was often considered uncivilized). Ladies stockings are not the same as medieval hosen.




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          • Mathilde Adycote
            Hi there, As the mother of three sons who grew up in the SCA I d suggest leaving him in T-tunics for the play clothes or putting him in mundane tights and just
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 13 2:09 PM
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              Hi there,

              As the mother of three sons who grew up in the SCA I'd suggest leaving him in T-tunics for the play clothes or putting him in mundane tights and just replacing them. You could also make hosen from cotton lycra (cheap and very robust).

              For court gear I'd make woollen hose. There's no reason that they need to be as tight fitting as adult hose (you don't say how old your lad is) and if you're quick you can whip them off before he heads outside or slides across the floor on his knees.

              Have a look at the Breugal paintings to see just how many different ways a child can be dressed (or not). It's also good to note that bare legs are period!! I can't tell you how many pairs of pants/hose THAT saved me.

              good luck!
              Mathilde

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            • Brian
              What of making/getting him a pair of thigh high riding boots to wear over his hosen? Brian
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 13 11:38 PM
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                What of making/getting him a pair of thigh high riding boots to wear over his hosen?


                Brian
              • Katherine Throckmorton
                How long are his tunics? If the tunics are below the knee, that will do a lot to help protect the knees of his hosen. -Katherine [Non-text portions of this
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 14 1:49 AM
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                  How long are his tunics? If the tunics are below the knee, that will do a
                  lot to help protect the knees of his hosen.

                  -Katherine


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tom Apple
                  ... Perhaps when you make the hose you could sew a reinforcing patch inside the knee area so when the outer layer of fabric is worn through, the patch is
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 15 6:19 AM
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                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Natividad <sarah.natividad@...> wrote:
                    >> I want to make my son some hosen. However, this is a child with a horrible reputation for tearing out the knees of his pants. <<<

                    Perhaps when you make the hose you could sew a reinforcing patch inside the knee area so when the outer layer of fabric is worn through, the patch is already there.

                    Also I find hose are a good place to use wool blends. An 85/15% wool/nylon blend will last much longer than 100% wool. That little bit of nylon will toughen up the hose quite a bit without being noticeably too synthetic.

                    The Woolrich wools make great hose.

                    Another option is for him to wear country boots. These are basically sleeves of cloth that cover the lower leg, tied off below or above the knee and at the ankle. In period artwork, you'll peasants wearing these while working in the fields. I'm guessing it would preserve the hose from wear and tear and keep the lower legs warmer.

                    You can see examples in the painting "Labors of the Twelve Months" from the Manuscript of Crescenzi li Rustican, circa 1460.

                    Cheers,

                    Tom A.

                    The Hussite Kompagnie
                    http://www.hussite.org/
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