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Patron saint of Taylors?

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  • Marianne Perdomo
    Hello! Does anyone know who the patron saint of tailors was, in medieval times? I see several listed but lack the sources to see if anyone was particularly
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 11, 2008
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      Hello!

      Does anyone know who the patron saint of tailors was, in medieval times? I
      see several listed but lack the sources to see if anyone was particularly
      used during the Middle Ages. I can date St. Homobonus to the 17th century
      but not earlier, so far.

      Thanks!!


      Leonor


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Amy Heilveil
      On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Marianne Perdomo ... What I found was this listing: * Adam * Boniface * Clarus * Eve * Homobonus * John the Baptist * Martin
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 11, 2008
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        On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Marianne Perdomo
        <marianne@...> wrote:
        > Does anyone know who the patron saint of tailors was, in medieval times?


        What I found was this listing:
        * Adam
        * Boniface
        * Clarus
        * Eve
        * Homobonus
        * John the Baptist
        * Martin of Tours
        * Matthias
        On this website: http://saints.sqpn.com/pst00702.htm

        The website does give a goodly number of other references when you
        investigate any of the mentioned saints. Several of these are
        mentioned as being cannonized pre-congregation (which is before they
        had to go through specific rules for cannonization and thus, were
        cannonized by local bishops and the like).

        This same list is found on several other sites.

        Hope this is helpful,
        Smiles,
        Despina de la back to chemistry
      • Rebecca Klingbeil
        ... From: Marianne Perdomo Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Patron saint of Taylors? To: authentic_sca
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 11, 2008
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          --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Marianne Perdomo <marianne@...> wrote:

          From: Marianne Perdomo <marianne@...>
          Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Patron saint of Taylors?
          To: "authentic_sca" <authentic_sca@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 10:33 AM




          [Quote:]

          Hello!

          Does anyone know who the patron saint of tailors was, in medieval times? I
          see several listed but lack the sources to see if anyone was particularly
          used during the Middle Ages. I can date St. Homobonus to the 17th century
          but not earlier, so far.

          Thanks!!

          Leonor

          +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

          St. Homobonus is also patron saint of business people - he's a patron of tailors more by proxy. He is period - he died and was cannonized in the late 12th c., but he was mostly a local cult around Cremona, Italy [of which he is also patron]. His main association with tailors stems from the fact that his father was one.

          Now, as to Despina's list:

          [Quote]
          * Adam
          * Boniface
          * Clarus
          * Eve
          * Homobonus
          * John the Baptist
          * Martin of Tours
          * Matthias
          +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

          Adam and Eve both appear regularly in medieval art, and are considered, officially, saints because they were considered to be among the 'righteous dead' who awaited the Messiah and who entered Heaven upon the 'harrowing' of Hell. But they did not exactly have cults in the sense that we see patron saints having cults. They are considered patrons of tailors mostly because they made the first clothes, and I have never seen a medieval artwork [yet - there may be one] where they are depicted as patrons. So I would generally not think that choosing one of them would work.

          The St. Clarus mentioned here is not to be confused with the 8th c. martyr, but rather seems to be a more modern saint - having his cult approved only in 1903 [which means it is old enough to have developed before official cannonization but small enough not to be much known about]. I would guess he would be mostly local to Vienne, France, where he was born. His feast day is Jan. 1.

          St. Boniface is not the St. Boniface who was pope but rather an 8th c. English missionary to Germany [which still had a large Pagan population at that point in time]. He is also called Winfrid or Wynfrith; and his cult was found in both Germany and England. He would be a good candidate.

          Martin of Tours [4th c. bishop] was an extremely popular medieval saint; one of the most famous stories from his Life was the tale of how he divided his cloak in half with his sword and gave half to a beggar who had nothing with which to keep warm. According to the legend, Christ then appeared to Martin wearing the cloak, and thanking him for his kindness. What was believed to have Martin's half of the cloak became an important relic under during the time of the Franks. By the time of the 'High' Middle Ages, St. Martin was an extremely popular saint, both in France and Italy, and well known elsewhere. He was a patron chosen by many guilds.

          St. John the Baptist was another popular patron throughout most of Europe. For those of you who are confused, 'the Baptist' refers to his being the one who baptized Christ - he was the son of Zaccharias and Elizabeth and was a cousin to Christ, according to the Gospel of Luke. He was another popular patron of many guilds and another good choice for a medieval tailor.

          Matthias was well known but not as popular in the Middle Ages as St. Martin and St. John, above. Matthias was the disciple chosen by lot to replace Judas [see the first couple of chapters of Acts].

          Hope this helps.

          Leofwynn
        • Marianne Perdomo
          Thank you! That s just the sort of info I was hoping for :) Am I right in getting the impression that often guilds chose just a saint they fancied, rather than
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 11, 2008
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            Thank you! That's just the sort of info I was hoping for :)

            Am I right in getting the impression that often guilds chose just a saint
            they fancied, rather than a specific trade-related saint?

            Thanks!


            Leonor


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rebecca Klingbeil
            ... From: Marianne Perdomo Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Patron saint of Tailors? To: authentic_sca
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 11, 2008
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              --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Marianne Perdomo <marianne@...> wrote:

              From: Marianne Perdomo <marianne@...>
              Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Patron saint of Tailors?
              To: "authentic_sca" <Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 1:06 PM






              Thank you! That's just the sort of info I was hoping for :)

              Am I right in getting the impression that often guilds chose just a saint
              they fancied, rather than a specific trade-related saint?

              Thanks!

              Leonor

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              Well, both. The choice often depended on culture, and location. Some saints were almost universally popular [St. Barbara, for example] and others were more local. Sometimes the saint for the guild was chosen because of something in their life or legend, or sometimes because an association with the city [for example, St. Mark and Venice] or local area [St. Boniface being popular in Germany, for instance], or both. It could also be a saint whose feast day was associated with time the guild was founded or whose name was on the church they all worshipped in or....
               
              Some patron saints in the modern listings are patrons because a Pope named them patron of something; and some times the Pope names a saint a patron of something simply because he or she has been associated with it for years or centuries. It's hard to tell sometimes.
               
              Personally, my favorite example is St. Agatha and bakers. The 'iconography' of St. Agatha - the thing that helps you identify her in paintings - was her holding her breasts on a platter. [There is other iconography associated with her but this is the one important to this trivial tale]. This was because she had her breasts cut off before being martyred [she was also miraculously healed before being killed]. So for St. Agatha you would paint, etc, a female saint [breasts and all] with breasts on a platter. Except that as time went on, the breasts got less realistic - and they weren't very realistically drawn to begin with anyway. So, at some point, the breasts got mistaken for rolls or buns. And thus, she became one of the patron saints of bakers. [ I am not making this up! - though in the modern listing, it has been corrected and this patronage 'removed', but one of her iconographical items is still listed as 'loaves of bread on a platter'] Even as late
              as the turn of the 20th c. the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia article on her ended with the statement: "In some places bread and water are blessed during Mass on her feast after the Consecration, and called Agatha bread."
               [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01203c.htm%5d
               
              By similar logic, St. Barbara is patron saint of artillerymen because her icon is a tower, because her father, according to legend, locked her in a tower to force to marry rather than be a consecrated virgin. And don't forget St. Sebastian, who is patron of archer's because, as part of his martyrdom, he was shot full of arrows. [According to the legend, he survived and was eventually killed by having his head cut off.]
               
              Enough trivia,
              YIS,
              Leofwynn Marchaunt
               

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Chris Laning
              ... Yes -- or, sometimes, if the guild had agreed to meet regularly at a particular church, they might adopt the patron of that church as their patron,
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 11, 2008
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                Leonor wrote:
                >Thank you! That's just the sort of info I was hoping for :)
                >
                >Am I right in getting the impression that often guilds chose just a saint
                >they fancied, rather than a specific trade-related saint?

                Yes -- or, sometimes, if the guild had agreed to meet regularly at a particular church, they might adopt the patron of that church as "their" patron, regardless of whether that saint had anything to do with their occupation or not. That way, they could have their annual meeting, procession in fancy clothes with banners, and (much anticipated!) banquet on a day when that church was *already* having a festival and was all decorated up ;)

                (Dame) Christian de Holacombe
                (who studies saints)

                ____________________________________________________________
                0 Chris Laning
                | <claning@...>
                + Davis, California
                http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
                ____________________________________________________________
              • Chris Laning
                More trivia (I love saint trivia!) ... IIRC, Agatha is also one of the patrons of bell founders, for pretty much the same reason -- the breasts on a platter
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 11, 2008
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                  More trivia (I love saint trivia!)

                  Leofwynn Marchaunt wrote:

                  >Personally, my favorite example is St. Agatha and bakers.
                  >The 'iconography' of St. Agatha - the thing that helps
                  >you identify her in paintings - was her holding her
                  >breasts on a platter. [There is other iconography
                  >associated with her but this is the one important
                  >to this trivial tale]. This was because she had her
                  >breasts cut off before being martyred [she was also
                  >miraculously healed before being killed]. So for St.
                  >Agatha you would paint, etc, a female saint [breasts
                  >and all] with breasts on a platter. Except that as
                  >time went on, the breasts got less realistic - and
                  >they weren't very realistically drawn to begin with
                  >anyway. So, at some point, the breasts got mistaken
                  >for rolls or buns. And thus, she became one of the
                  >patron saints of bakers.

                  IIRC, Agatha is also one of the patrons of bell founders, for pretty much the same reason -- the breasts on a platter somewhat resemble bells.

                  >By similar logic, St. Barbara is patron saint of
                  >artillerymen because her icon is a tower, because
                  >her father, according to legend, locked her in a
                  >tower to force her to marry rather than be a
                  >consecrated virgin.

                  And, as punishment, her father was killed by lightning -- so St. Barbara is also patron of just about anything else that goes "Boom!" <grin>

                  Christian de H.

                  ____________________________________________________________
                  0 Chris Laning
                  | <claning@...>
                  + Davis, California
                  http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
                  ____________________________________________________________
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