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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Heraldic Clothing

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  • Cindy Myers
    ... Yes, but... ;) The difference is clothing with heraldic elements and colors , vs wearing the flag as it were. Looking like you took your banner and
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 4, 2008
      > > It is quite possible that no woman ever wore a heraldic surcote.
      > Parts of this argument
      > are badly remembered from a lecture by Robin Netherton; all
      > mistakes mine.
      > >
      >
      > "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince" mentions several heraldic
      > items made for Queen
      > Phillipa, specifically for her to wear to tournaments in which
      > Edward III fought. These
      > references often refer to clothing that matched or corresponded to
      > whatever Edward was
      > wearing - including mottos, badges, charges, livery colors, etc.
      >

      Yes, but... ;)

      The difference is "clothing with heraldic elements and colors", vs
      "wearing the flag" as it were. Looking like you took your banner and
      made it into a dress (ala the lady in the arming scene in the
      Luttrell Psalter) possibly only happened in art. The other instances
      cited, of clothing containing mottos, badges, charges, and livery
      colors, produce a different look. There's precious little clothing
      surviving, and less with heraldic content, but it would seem to
      support this argument.

      If it helps, think of the USA's tradition of 4th of July clothing and
      the American flag. We'll see stars, stripes, red/white/blue, and
      even little flags decorating our clothing, but I haven't seen anyone
      at the parade dressed in what looks like a walking flag (or half a
      one). That's usually reserved for political cartoons where it's
      important to indicate the figure is representing the USA.

      All my thinking on this has been completely influenced by Robin
      Netherton, and supported by my own observations afterward while
      wondering if she's on to something there. ;)

      --Emmelyne de Marksbury
    • Elisabeth Hänsler
      I was looking more towards the colors, livery, elements or badges type of heraldry. Example: My lord s device is black and gold with 3 bottony crosses. I wear
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 4, 2008
        I was looking more towards the colors, livery, elements or badges type
        of heraldry.

        Example: My lord's device is black and gold with 3 bottony crosses.
        I wear a gold (Manesse Codex style) surcotte with a black bottony
        cross over my heart.

        I don't wear his arms but I do wear elements of it to support him when
        he is competing.

        When I originally posted I was trying to see what people have heard
        and if this is a period form of support for a lady.

        YIS,

        Elisabeth Hansler
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