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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re:SCA garb

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  • Rebecca Klingbeil
    ... Though I am a merchant, I generally try to avoid selling anything on list, so if this crosses the line, I apologize. However, my most recent project
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 22, 2008
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      --- Joan Mielke <joan.mielke.yost@...> wrote:

      > Have you considered using some of the better costume
      > history books as visual
      > aids, without actually making individual printouts?
      > Until newcomers see
      > pictures or examples of period garb, I don't know
      > how they are supposed to
      > tell the difference between reasonably accurate garb
      > and the Lord of the
      > Rings.

      Though I am a merchant, I generally try to avoid
      'selling' anything on list, so if this crosses the
      line, I apologize.

      However, my most recent project might be useful to
      those of you trying to show period garb to newcomers.
      [More so when I am completely finished.] I've been
      working on a 'visual library' of period artwork. I
      have obtained appropriate licensing for the images of
      the artwork used [most is from the Art Renewal Center,
      http://www.artrenewal.org to whom I paid a licensing
      fee and some is public domain]. It's been a lot of
      work, but the first 2 of a planned 18 CD-ROMs are
      done.

      Basically, they are CD-ROMs of images of period
      artwork, sorted into categories [like 'Outerwear',
      'Footwear', 'Headwear', etc], with abstracts about
      each image, for personal and research use. You can't
      put them up on a website, or publish them [without
      getting permission yourself], but you could them - or
      some of them - in a class on garb or for documentation
      for an A & S project.

      I started the project because I know how fustrating it
      is to find images of garb [or period furnishings,
      jewelry, etc.] and compare them. They are there, but
      gathering them all together is a lot of work. So my
      idea was to do the first step for people.

      I would give them away if I could, but after over 100
      hours of gathering and sorting, plus the licensing
      fee, I cannot do that.

      But since the mention of good books on costuming came
      up, I thought I ought to mention it. I originally
      conceived of the idea to help a friend who is an
      apprentice to a 'clothing' Laurel. I'm hoping that
      others will find them useful also.

      Please check them out, if you wish, at
      http://store.tidbitstrinkets.com [my website] under
      'Tidbit's Visual Reference Library'. The two CDs
      finished are Vol. I: Women's Clothing 1178-1410 and
      Vol. VI: Men's Clothing 1100-1410. The next 'pair'
      [for the men and women's clothing from 1390-1460] of
      CDs is almost done.


      Thank you for 'hearing me out',
      Leofwynn Marchaunt
    • Joan Mielke Yost
      ... clothing,[...][snip] ... you look in a mirror before you left the house? ... Words well said and just, my lady. Jehanne of al-Barran
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 22, 2008
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "wodeford" <wodeford@...> wrote:
        >
        > From the governing documents of the SCA: "Anyone may attend Society
        > events provided he or she wears an attempt at pre-17th century
        clothing,[...][snip]
        >
        > "Attempt." Not "reasonable attempt." Not "good," not "bad," not, "Did
        you look in a mirror before you left the house?"
        >

        Words well said and just, my lady.

        Jehanne of al-Barran
      • Sue Warner
        ... having ... figure ... Have you thought of a fashion show of sorts with pattern envelopes? or Halloween garb (shudder) If you use pattern envelopes you
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 23, 2008
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          > In a message dated 8/22/2008 3:05:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          > madeleinedelacroix@... writes:
          >
          > <<I am giving a newcomers class very soon and was wondering how some
          > of you would tactfully explain the difference between historically
          > correct and fantasy garb, without sounding snarky, also without
          having
          > to print up lots of pics. I know the difference, but am tryingto
          figure
          > out ways to say it and not hurt anyone's feelings.>>


          Have you thought of a "fashion show" of sorts with pattern envelopes?
          or Halloween "garb" (shudder)

          If you use pattern envelopes you can point out what is wrong with them
          and what is right.

          Mariassa of Ashgrove
        • Heather Rose Jones
          (I may have missed some of the discussion in this thread, so I apologize if someone s already discussed the following.) One of the things to consider when
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 24, 2008
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            (I may have missed some of the discussion in this thread, so I
            apologize if someone's already discussed the following.)

            One of the things to consider when designing a presentation of
            "historic debunking" or "bad costuming to avoid" or similar themes is
            the unfortunate tendency of people to retain the images or "facts"
            they were presented with ... and to forget that they were being
            warned _against_ those images or "facts".

            If you give a thoroughly-researched and eloquently-presented lecture
            saying, "People in such-and-such a context of medieval Europe did not
            do X, which we know from evidence Y and Z," you can almost guarantee
            that half the people who attended the lecture will remember "blah
            blah medieval people blah blah did X blah blah."

            If you give a slide show of Hollywood-medieval gowns, commercial
            Halloween dress patterns, and egregious Ren-Fair-isms, explaining in
            loving detail where the outfits diverge from historic fashion and
            what aspects of them should be avoided, you can almost guarantee that
            half the people watching the slide show will have stopped listening
            at some point and are now thinking, "What a gorgeous dress -- I want
            to look like that!"

            Sometimes the best approach is simply to inundate the newcomers with
            images of gorgeous historic clothing, worn by historic people with
            interesting stories, so they can fasten their imaginations on looking
            like _that_ and being _that_ person. Like a newly-hatched gosling
            looking around for its mother, an SCA newcomer will tend to imprint
            on what they're first exposed to. A lecture that focuses on "look at
            these pictures and don't to that" will be more likely to confuse them
            than to get them moving in the right direction.

            Tangwystyl
          • ren_junkie
            MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our many members who receive their list email in digest form, we ask that you not top post your replies and snip any portion
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 27, 2008
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              MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our many members who receive their list email in digest form, we ask that you not top post your replies and snip any portion of the previous message that does not require repetition. Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

              MESSAGE ORDER REVERSED AND EDITED:
              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rose Jones
              <heather.jones@...> wrote:
              > One of the things to consider when designing a presentation of
              > "historic debunking" or "bad costuming to avoid" or similar themes
              is
              > the unfortunate tendency of people to retain the images
              or "facts"
              > they were presented with ... and to forget that they were being
              > warned _against_ those images or "facts".
              <SNIP>
              > Sometimes the best approach is simply to inundate the newcomers
              with
              > images of gorgeous historic clothing, worn by historic people
              with
              > interesting stories, so they can fasten their imaginations on
              looking
              > like _that_ and being _that_ person. Like a newly-hatched
              gosling
              > looking around for its mother, an SCA newcomer will tend to
              imprint
              > on what they're first exposed to. A lecture that focuses on "look
              at
              > these pictures and don't to that" will be more likely to confuse
              them
              > than to get them moving in the right direction.

              I would tend to agree. Not so much because I know all kinds of cool
              garb stuff, but because people respond backwards to a negative.

              Example; An athelete is about to start a race, and he keeps
              repeating "Don't mess up, don't mess up," he will almost invariably
              blow it. Another one in the same race says, "Win, win, win," will
              nearly always perform superbly (all physical and training variables
              being equal).

              If you put focus on what is wrong, people gravitate there. Put it on
              where is right, and they gravitate there. Works that way
              psychologically and physically, by and large.

              So just focus in your class on what is right. When they're focus is
              on correct garb, that's the direction they will tend towards.

              Christopher
            • clifford knutson
              MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our many members who receive their list email in digest form, we ask that you not top post your replies and snip any portion
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 27, 2008
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                MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our many members who receive their
                list email in digest form, we ask that you not top post your replies and snip any portion of the previous message that does not require repetition. Thank you.
                Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

                [SUBJECT LINE CHANGED AND PRIOR MESSAGES DELETED]

                I hope i am not asking the same question twice but I have brain damage from an accident and I am trying to find things I can do one of the things I would like to try is to build my own period tent. So I was hoping that someone here knows of a good place to buy canvas for building tents and can you tell me which canvas is the best for the raining weather of An Tir I thank you.
                Olav Strongshield
              • Folo Watkins
                ... Sunforger canvas is probably best. All reputable tent suppliers I know--from Panther to the little Amish couple who sew our getelds--use Sunforger (a
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 27, 2008
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                  >I hope i am not asking the same question twice but I have brain
                  >damage from an accident and I am trying to find things I can do one
                  >of the things I would like to try is to build my own period tent. So
                  >I was hoping that someone here knows of a good place to buy canvas
                  >for building tents and can you tell me which canvas is the best for
                  >the raining weather of An Tir I thank you.

                  Sunforger canvas is probably best. All reputable tent suppliers I
                  know--from Panther to the little Amish couple who sew our
                  getelds--use Sunforger (a marine canvas). You can find suppliers
                  easily; I did a quick search and even came up with someone having a
                  sale: http://www.highlandtents.com/specials!.htm

                  Personal Note: I never get Sunforger that has been treated (fire
                  resistant, water resistant, etc.), not because it doesn't work, but I
                  have never found such treatments to be necessary. I've had canvas up
                  in dire weather, and it has come through well. The threads tend to
                  swell in wet weather, and it becomes more water resistant, while some
                  treatments--eg, Thompson'd--prevents the threads from swelling,
                  causing the canvas to become less water resistant and to smell
                  something fierce.

                  If however, someone offers mildew-resistant Sunforger, grab it! It's
                  usually enough to pack dry canvas or, if unabl, to dry the canvas out
                  when you get home before packing it away, but I've lost too much
                  canvas over the past coupler decades!

                  Cheers, Folo
                • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                  In a message dated 8/27/2008 2:42:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, olav_98550@yahoo.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 27, 2008
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                    In a message dated 8/27/2008 2:42:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    olav_98550@... writes:

                    <<I hope i am not asking the same question twice but I have brain damage from
                    an accident and I am trying to find things I can do one of the things I would
                    like to try is to build my own period tent. So I was hoping that someone here
                    knows of a good place to buy canvas for building tents and can you tell me
                    which canvas is the best for the raining weather of An Tir I thank you.>>

                    Panther Pavilions sells Sunforger canvas by the yard - this is excellent
                    stuff.

                    Brangwayna Morgan



                    **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
                    deal here.
                    (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
                  • Amy Heilveil
                    Email I sent around a couple of years ago with information for inexpensive Sunforger - Smiles, Despina de la the groups files are a cool place to look for
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 28, 2008
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                      Email I sent around a couple of years ago with information for
                      inexpensive Sunforger -

                      Smiles,
                      Despina de la the groups files are a cool place to look for things

                      > Please remember that I don't get a kickback for this, I'm just a happy
                      > customer.
                      >
                      > From the Medieval encampments list posted by His Grace Cariadoc:
                      >
                      >I've done business with Itex and like them. They have high quality
                      >tent canvas (sunforger with all the usual treatments) at a very
                      >reasonable price. And they are friendly and helpful people.
                      >
                      >I suspect the remnants you are referring to are partial rolls of that
                      >canvas. They also have "remnants" at much more than 30% off--prices
                      >like a dollar to two dollars a yard for serious canvas.
                      >The remnant prices are for the whole piece, which is likely to be at
                      >least fifty yards and may be in the hundreds. They are colored. Itex
                      >generally can't tell you in much detail what treatments (mildew
                      >resistance, fire resistance, etc.) a remnant roll has had, although
                      >the person you talk to may be able to give an informed guess. And
                      >they will send you a sample. They will also send you a list of
                      >remnants, but it may or may not correspond to what they currently
                      >have in stock, since it doesn't seem to be revised very often, so you
                      >may do better by just talking to the person at the other end of the
                      >phone about what you need and having him see what they have.
                      >
                      > From Despina:
                      >
                      >Itex is also where I got my sunforger canvas. I got a remnant roll of
                      >plain canvas colored canvas (read: no color) with over 50 yards on it for
                      >under $200 - including shipping. We still have some of it after making
                      >the walls for our ger ) - and no, I'm not parting with it. We still use it for sunshades
                      >and such. Bob Shaver was the salesman with whom I dealt and I highly
                      >recommend him. His email was BShaver@... I assume it's still the same.
                      >
                      >Itex occasionally has an overstock of some colors (like hot pink) and cut
                      >the prices on that as well. It never hurts to ask.
                      >
                      >Smiles,
                      >Despina

                      >
                      > From another website, more info on Itex:
                      >
                      >Itex, in Aurora Colorado. Call the toll free info number (1-800-555-1212)
                      >for the toll free number. Tom Feist is the contact person, and he knows
                      >all about the SCA, and was very helpful on the phone. His Grace Duke
                      >Cariadoc shared his source for good cheap canvas with me, and I called
                      >them yesterday. Their prices sound wonderful--to give you an idea: 60"
                      >wide khaki canvas 10 oz for 2.25 per yard 60" wide natural canvas for a
                      >bit over $3 (my notes are at work).The catch is the fabric is actually a
                      >remnant, (albeit a huge one) and that you buy the entire bolt, not by the
                      >yard. The bolts vary, and they will be able to tell you how many yards are
                      >on the bolt you are buying before you purchase one. It costs about $30-$40
                      >to ship a bolt UPS in the United States. Most bolts are between 80 and 200
                      >yards, and you can put a request in for a particular color, fabric,
                      >weight, bolt size, etc. All this information is per the company.
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