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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Possible New SCA Member

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  • Kareina Talvi Tytär
    ... For me one of the big appeals to the SCA is that we *do* welcome a broad range of people, with varying levels of interest in the history or
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 9, 2008
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      smoothoperator383@... wrote:

      > [snip] The recent research I have done on most of the SCA
      > community, only web based so far, has dampned my spirits. It
      > appears that a lot of community is focused on the feasting,
      > drinking, and armor with little interest in the history. [snip]
      >
      > It surprised me when I looked on Yahoo groups and found that the
      > first group I saw under my search for the SCA was this one and it
      > seemed that there are quite a few out there that do care about the history.

      For me one of the big appeals to the SCA is that we *do* welcome a
      broad range of people, with varying levels of interest in the
      "history" or "authenticity" aspects of the game. As I tell people
      expressing interest, everyone is welcome, both those who's idea of
      "costume research" is watching old Erol Flynn movies, and those who
      check out the latest Archaeological Textile Newsletter to find out
      how many threads per inch the fabric for their tunic should have if
      they wish to portray someone from location X and time Z.

      Sometimes it can seem like *everyone* is all at one or the other end
      of the spectrum, depending on what you are reading, or who you are
      meeting at events, but I suspect that the distribution across the
      spectrum is really rather even, particularly so because some people
      will care passionately about one aspect of authenticity but not care
      at all about another, meaning that many folk manage to hit both ends
      of the spectrum, depending on the topic at hand. (e.g. one who cares
      about details of armour construction/style may or may not care about
      details pertaining to music, one who cares about the using the
      correct inks used for calligraphy and illumination may or may not
      care about what style of shoes are on their feet, etc...)

      Welcome (back) to the SCA, and I wish you much success in connecting
      with those who share your interests, and may you discover rewarding
      friendships amongst those with interests which are different from
      those you bring to the organization as well!

      --Kareina

      http://kareina.livejournal.com/
    • wodeford
      ... Insult slinging has no place in a society that supposedly values courtesy and honor. Let s not encourage it, shall we? BTW, we ask that you not use the N
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 9, 2008
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "smoothoperator383"
        <smoothoperator383@...> wrote:

        > It surprised me when I looked on Yahoo groups and found that the first
        > group I saw under my search for the SCA was this one and it seemed that
        > there are quite a few out there that do care about the history. If I
        > may in the SCA community do the others that are just there for
        > the "party" have a term for you?

        Insult slinging has no place in a society that supposedly values
        courtesy and honor. Let's not encourage it, shall we? BTW, we ask that
        you not use the "N" word. It's offensive and unnecessary. Be an
        authenticity enthusiast with pride.

        The SCA got its start some 40 odd years ago as a themed costume party.
        (If you're at all interested in our early history,
        http://history.westkingdom.org/ is worth exploring.) We attract all
        kinds, from fantasy/SF fans to history lovers. Inevitably we have
        grown and changed over the years and there are members of the Society
        who do some incredibly in-depth portrayals of their chosen personae
        and periods. There are also the just-for-fun crowd - and a whole
        spectrum between. It allows for flexibility, personal growth and
        exploration of a long timeline and a variety of cultures.

        Welcome to the list. Be sure to take a look at the Links and Files
        sections at our home page.

        Jehanne de Wodeford
        West Kingdom
      • julian wilson
        Could Despina please contact me direct, offlist? Matthew Baker [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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          Could Despina please contact me direct, offlist?
          Matthew Baker


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jewel
          --People in the SCA who are too much into authenticity are sometimes called the Period Police behind their back, but I agree with the message earlier that
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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            --People in the SCA who are "too much" into authenticity are sometimes
            called the "Period Police" behind their back, but I agree with the
            message earlier that said we shouldn't use names, especially not
            "Nazi" as that indicates that it's bad to be detail-oriented.

            The SCA rules require an "attempt" at medieval garb. This is generally
            accepted as "does it look decent from 20 feet"...thus (and shoes are
            my biggest pet-peeve), hiking boots or combat boots are acceptable,
            but white sneakers are frowned upon because they glare out as modern.

            I love how the SCA allows all kinds of people to play, but it is
            sometimes difficult for the more historically-oriented people to
            maintain their level (someone comes up to you and wants to talk about
            the Iraqi war...the problem is whether to go out of persona and
            converse or be less than polite and miss the opportunity to
            make/maintain a friend. It's something that each person has to figure
            out, I suppose.

            Welcome to the SCA, and I hope you find all that you are looking for
            here...don't expect it to be like Civil War Re-Creation, though. In he
            SCA, we re-create the best of the Middle Ages, so the not-so-great
            stuff is often left out on purpose...the big P's don't exist (Plague,
            Poverty, Persecution [especially religious])...of course, if someone
            chooses a persona that brings about discrimination and portrays it
            well, feel free to play it out after talking to them!

            Once at Pennsic, there was a guy who plays a gypsy persona who asked
            me to attend a party with him. Me, a proper lady of France, at a
            party with a gypsy?? I told him 'Certainly not; I wouldn't be seen in
            public with a gypsy'...so the next night he came back in his noble
            persona, and we went to a different party (*grin*)

            Vivat the Dream,
            Lady Julienne fille Gaspard, mka Jewel Shuping
          • SoldierGrrrl
            ... Welcome. There are so many different levels of interest in authenticity in the SCA that I try really hard not to get grouchy at people who don t share my
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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              On 8/9/08, smoothoperator383 <smoothoperator383@...> wrote:
              >
              > (MOderator note: Please sign all posts to this group. Thank you, Despina de
              > la Moderator)
              >
              > Greetings all, I have recently rekindled my intrest in the SCA. I
              > looked into it many years ago mainly just intrested in the armor, as I
              > suppose many have, and found enough information on armor to last me
              > with out gettin involved in the SCA proper. The recent research I have
              > done on most of the SCA community, only web based so far, has dampned
              > my spirits. It appears that a lot of community is focused on the
              > feasting, drinking, and armor with little interest in the history. I am
              > a 4 year veteran of Civil War re-enacting and I suppose i'd be called a
              > Stitch Nazi by some I consider myself a Campaigner, I don't carry a
              > tent and I don't eat corndogs.


              Welcome. There are so many different levels of interest in authenticity in
              the SCA that I try really hard not to get grouchy at people who don't share
              my interests.

              My husband, who could care less about clothing construction in 10th C.
              Byzantium (or the Eastern Holy Roman Empire, if you'd like to be more
              correct) can however, tell you about military strategy, historical decisions
              made by the Emperor's third cousin who is out campaigning in some provincial
              backwater and putting the Imperial smackdown on some smelly barbarians, and
              what those troops were wearing, eating, pooping and dreaming about. He
              could tell you the average age, marital status, diets, family size, and
              education levels as well as break-down the units for you. All this, while I
              snore quietly in the corner.

              Granted, once I get into dyes, weaves, the cut of clothing and the diet of
              the average person, he'll be the one snoring, so don't judge all groups by
              the kind you see online. If we did that, I'd be convinced my beloved Army
              was a collection of knuckle-dragging Neanderthals with the IQ of a mushy
              turnip, when the truth is so much different.

              Also, perhaps, since no one's been put to death for failing an authenticity
              test, maybe we could look at not using the term "Nazi?" I've heard from a
              Laurel that it actually hurts to be compared to genocidal monsters due to
              wanting to pursue a "higher" standard. I can see that. I hope you can, as
              well.

              It surprised me when I looked on Yahoo groups and found that the first
              > group I saw under my search for the SCA was this one and it seemed that
              > there are quite a few out there that do care about the history. If I
              > may in the SCA community do the others that are just there for
              > the "party" have a term for you? like they have for us in the Civil War
              > community? It seems like any group that recreats an era has nay sayers
              > and detracters be it Civil War, World War II, or Golden age of Piracy.


              I'm all about the party, too, as well as the fighting and dancing and all
              the other fun parts of the SCA.

              Welcome, and I hope you enjoy it,

              In Service,
              Helena Dalassene


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Madeleine Delacroix
              Greetings, I read your post as well as the others posted thus far. There are things I do that would be historically accurate and things that would be not so
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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                Greetings,
                I read your post as well as the others posted thus far. There are
                things I do that would be historically accurate and things that would
                be not so accurate, such as glasses(contacts no longer an option),
                even though I am of a later persona, I refuse to wear a corset.But I
                drive my family crazy getting garb and accessories just so. My 3 yr
                old wears a long tunic because he would not have breeches on yet. Some
                feel spending money for some things are important, some not so much.As
                a châtelaine I tell newcomers this, the Society is what you make it.
                There is also the 10 foot rule, if it looks good from 10 feet, it's
                good. Unless you are independently wealthy chances of starting off
                with a period pavilion and things like that usually don't happen. If
                there is a family of say 5 and all they have is a nylon tent but they
                really want to go to an event, so be it. It's better to participate
                then not because you don't think you have the right things. Although I
                am not one of a partying crowd, to get together and feast and party is
                actually an activity that would have happened. So you will meet all
                different degrees, you just have to do for yourself what suits you.

                Madeleine Louise Delacroix
              • Chris Laning
                I believe it was Duke Cariadoc of the Bow who commented that if you think the SCA will be thousands of people *just like you*, you will be terribly
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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                  I believe it was Duke Cariadoc of the Bow who commented that if you
                  think the SCA will be thousands of people *just like you*, you will
                  be terribly disappointed. But if you look at the SCA as a place where
                  you can *find* people who are just like you, you will enjoy yourself
                  much more. That's been my experience as well.

                  I've spent a number of years doing some very intense research, but
                  now that I'm going to events again, I find I'm enjoying the diversity
                  of interests and the incredible diversity of personalities. Some of
                  the aspects of the "game" that are not authentic now bother me much
                  less than they used to, I think because I've come to feel that I have
                  my own place in the Society and it's not threatened by what anyone
                  else does. I do still take great joy in authenticity when I find it,
                  but I know it's not everywhere.
                  ____________________________________________________________

                  O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
                  + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
                  http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
                  ____________________________________________________________
                • Karen
                  I told a friend [also in the SCA] that I belonged to this group and another similar one for Norse folk and she made a comment including the derogatory *n* word
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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                    I told a friend [also in the SCA] that I belonged to this group and
                    another similar one for Norse folk and she made a comment including
                    the derogatory *n* word mentioned which usually indicates someone
                    overly concerned with other people's authenticity as well as their own
                    - I believe that our kin across the ocean call this being a
                    'nosey-parker' - but I'm not interested in going around telling other
                    people how to dress, accessorize, pavilion-ate, etc., I'm only doing
                    things as authentically as I can for /me/ and I explained that to her.
                    My persona is drawn from my own ancestors, and it's important to me
                    to honor their craft and their culture, not to complain about somebody
                    else's interpretation of things.

                    i tjänst till dröm,
                    Eydís Gunnarsdóttir



                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "smoothoperator383"
                    <smoothoperator383@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    ><snip> ...found that the first group I saw under my search for the
                    SCA was this one and it seemed that there are quite a few out there
                    that do care about the history. If I may in the SCA community do the
                    others that are just there for the "party" have a term for you? like
                    they have for us in the Civil War community? It seems like any group
                    that recreats an era has nay sayers and detracters be it Civil War,
                    World War II, or Golden age of Piracy.
                  • gedney@OPTONLINE.NET
                    brava, good my Lady, well stated. Capt Elias ... From: Chris Laning Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:13 pm Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Possible New SCA
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 10, 2008
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                      brava, good my Lady, well stated.

                      Capt Elias

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Chris Laning
                      Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:13 pm
                      Subject: Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Possible New SCA Member
                      To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com

                      > I believe it was Duke Cariadoc of the Bow who commented that if
                      > you
                      > think the SCA will be thousands of people *just like you*, you
                      > will
                      > be terribly disappointed. But if you look at the SCA as a place
                      > where
                      > you can *find* people who are just like you, you will enjoy
                      > yourself
                      > much more. That's been my experience as well.
                      >
                      > I've spent a number of years doing some very intense research,
                      > but
                      > now that I'm going to events again, I find I'm enjoying the
                      > diversity
                      > of interests and the incredible diversity of personalities. Some
                      > of
                      > the aspects of the "game" that are not authentic now bother me
                      > much
                      > less than they used to, I think because I've come to feel that I
                      > have
                      > my own place in the Society and it's not threatened by what
                      > anyone
                      > else does. I do still take great joy in authenticity when I find
                      > it,
                      > but I know it's not everywhere.
                      > ____________________________________________________________
                      >
                      > O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
                      > + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning
                      > http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
                      > ____________________________________________________________
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > ----------------------------------------------------
                      > This is the Authentic SCA eGroupYahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • digital.princess
                      MODERATOR NOTE: 1. As a courtesy to our members who receive their email in digest form, we ask that you not top post and that you remove any portion of the
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 21, 2008
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                        MODERATOR NOTE: 1. As a courtesy to our members who receive their email in digest form, we ask that you not top post and that you remove any portion of the previous message(s) that do not require repetition. 2. Please also sign your posts. Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

                        Message order reversed and edited.

                        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "smoothoperator383"
                        <smoothoperator383@...> wrote:


                        > It surprised me when I looked on Yahoo groups and found that the first
                        > group I saw under my search for the SCA was this one and it seemed that
                        > there are quite a few out there that do care about the history.

                        I know what you mean...

                        I come from a background of doing many types or re-enacting, and the
                        historical accuracy is a lot more strict in the Civil War groups than
                        then Renaissance...

                        I also have tried to start historical education groups in the
                        medieval/renaissance era re-enacting, but I was frustrated by the lack
                        of interest in anything but partying, drinking... lounging all day in
                        very un-period garb... not a good image to be projecting to patrons.

                        This group, so far, has been a great source of accurate info and a
                        really good reference as well as rekindling my hope that some people
                        do care about the history! So, thanks for that!
                      • Pete McKee
                        ... first ... that ... Not sure if Smooth Operator is still around after the light drubbing he took over his choice of words. If so, do stick around, whether
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 21, 2008
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                          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "smoothoperator383"
                          <smoothoperator383@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > It surprised me when I looked on Yahoo groups and found that the
                          first
                          > group I saw under my search for the SCA was this one and it seemed
                          that
                          > there are quite a few out there that do care about the history.
                          >

                          Not sure if Smooth Operator is still around after the light drubbing
                          he took over his choice of words. If so, do stick around, whether
                          you join up or not, this is a good, and knowledgable bunch of folks.
                          I also came at this from a reenacting and living history profesional
                          background. Mostly I was intrigued by seeing "authentic" and "SCA"
                          used in the same sentence. At any rate, you've noticed one of the
                          cultural differences between the two groups. SCA folks really get
                          bent out of shape over words and perceptions. We reenactors are often
                          somewhat rough around the edges in our language. SCA folks think
                          nothing of flailing the tar out of one another with sticks, and in
                          some cases, live steel. Draw a naked blade, or thump someone at a
                          reenactment, and you may get escorted off the field by the
                          authorities. We all have our quirks, and life is too short to
                          quibble.

                          Take care,
                          Pete McKee
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