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Help locating 15th C Brocade

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  • elara_drake
    Good evening, good gentles. I m coming out of hiding to request any assistance or references in finding one specific pattern of brocade. I m looking for a
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 16, 2008
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      Good evening, good gentles. I'm coming out of hiding to request any
      assistance or references in finding one specific pattern of brocade.
      I'm looking for a mid-weight, (something akin to medium upholstry
      weight) brocade in the vining artichoke pattern depicted in several of
      the 6 Lady and Unicorn tapestries. Esp visible on Hearing, and Taste,
      or the underdress of A Mon Seul Desir. I believe I've also seen it on
      other manuscripts dating from about the late 14th C to the 15th C or so.
      My goal is finding something like this, with the artichoke or
      pineapple look, NOT floral, preferably with the long vine-like stems
      (tho I don't know if it even exists) but at least with a very large
      repeat. Something like 20x20"ish, in blacks and golds, or reds and
      golds.
      Any assistance would be much appreciated, as I've spent months
      looking, and have found very little in the right size. Please feel free
      to contact me off-list if you prefer. Whiteraven89@...

      Thank you all in advance, for any help you might provide.

      Respectfully,
      WhiteRaven - (back to lurking)
    • xina007eu
      ... brocade. ... of ... Taste, ... on ... or so. ... stems ... free ... Hello WhiteRaven, have a look at the Memlinc fabric by Watts & Co
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 20, 2008
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "elara_drake"
        <whiteraven89@...> wrote:
        >
        > Good evening, good gentles. I'm coming out of hiding to request any
        > assistance or references in finding one specific pattern of
        brocade.
        > I'm looking for a mid-weight, (something akin to medium upholstry
        > weight) brocade in the vining artichoke pattern depicted in several
        of
        > the 6 Lady and Unicorn tapestries. Esp visible on Hearing, and
        Taste,
        > or the underdress of A Mon Seul Desir. I believe I've also seen it
        on
        > other manuscripts dating from about the late 14th C to the 15th C
        or so.
        > My goal is finding something like this, with the artichoke or
        > pineapple look, NOT floral, preferably with the long vine-like
        stems
        > (tho I don't know if it even exists) but at least with a very large
        > repeat. Something like 20x20"ish, in blacks and golds, or reds and
        > golds.
        > Any assistance would be much appreciated, as I've spent months
        > looking, and have found very little in the right size. Please feel
        free
        > to contact me off-list if you prefer. Whiteraven89@...
        >
        > Thank you all in advance, for any help you might provide.
        >
        > Respectfully,
        > WhiteRaven - (back to lurking)
        >

        Hello WhiteRaven,

        have a look at the "Memlinc" fabric by Watts & Co
        (http://www.wattsandco.com). It has a fairly large repeat.

        Best regards,

        Christina
      • julian wilson
        Good Gentles of the List, as part of the continuing attempt to improve our encampment and our feast ware/gear - we are seeking any glass manufacturer that
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 20, 2008
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          Good Gentles of the List,
          as part of the continuing attempt to improve our encampment and our feast ware/gear - we are seeking any glass manufacturer that offers replicas of medieval bottle designs.
          To get rid of the modern bottle shapes on our feast tables we intend to decant from modern bottles into some of "period" design.
          We "do" late 15th early 16th Century Western Europe in our Household, when a noble household would have bought wine by the cask, and the "Boutellier" would have decanted some into bottles belonging to the House, [part of the "re-useable Feastware"] whenever the Seigneur was entertaining high-status guests.

          If anyone knows of modern vineyards which are still producing the same categories of wines as were imported into England between say 1450AD and 1509AD, - would you be good enough to pass that info along to us? It would be so cool to serve something like Rhenish*, malmsey*, and claret* at our feast table, to complement redacted medieval "dishes". Wikipedia says what they* are without giving any idea if they are still produced anywhere! {I have posted this latter question on the Food & Feasts List - but their attention seems to be completely absorbed by the BoD's proposals concerning waterbearers, to the exclusion of all else.]

          In hopeful service,
          Matthew Baker
        • balanttina
          hello good sir! this czech site has a huge array of glass replicas from all kinds of periods, including middle ages and renaissance:
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 21, 2008
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            hello good sir!

            this czech site has a huge array of glass replicas from all kinds of
            periods, including middle ages and renaissance:
            http://www.hanaglass.cz/html/aj1.htm.

            I doj't know about english wines, but in slovenia we still grow the
            same varieties that were drunk at least in the 15th century:
            malvazija, rebula.

            lp, celestina
          • Beth and Bob Matney
            Celestina, Do you know of a reliable bookstore in the eastern Europe (esp Czech Republic) that ships to the USA? Thanks, Beth Matney
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 21, 2008
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              Celestina,

              Do you know of a reliable bookstore in the eastern Europe (esp Czech
              Republic) that ships to the USA?

              Thanks,
              Beth Matney
            • Joan Mielke Yost
              Finding good glassware and ceramics is an obsession of mine because in a former incarnation I was an historical archaeologist. To my knowledge, wine was
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 21, 2008
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                Finding good glassware and ceramics is an obsession of mine because in
                a former incarnation I was an historical archaeologist. To my
                knowledge, wine was served at table from jugs, not bottles. Glass
                bottles did not come into wider use until the late 16th century, but
                the earliest ones were 10-12" around, squat and globular with a
                relatively short neck. They were handblown and made of very thick
                (1/2"+)dark green glass. They had a rough pontil scar on the bottom,
                but unlike later bottles, they did not have a "push up" or "kick up."

                This link has two pictures of stoneware bottles, as well as a green
                globular bottle. http://www.earlyglass.com/

                The Museum of London has a wonderful pictoral catalogue. There are
                only a few medieval glass items, but take a look at the 17th and 18th
                century page for lots of bottle designs. While the bottles are dated,
                at earliest, 1601, the forms go back further.
                http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ceramics/pages/glass.asp

                Jehanne
              • Joan Mielke Yost
                Greetings to the good gentles of the list! If one is interested in purchasing reproduction bottles, stoneware or dining items, I have found the following sites
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 21, 2008
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                  Greetings to the good gentles of the list!

                  If one is interested in purchasing reproduction bottles, stoneware or
                  dining items, I have found the following sites to be useful.

                  I am passionate about quality replicas and these are the best I have
                  found, so far, in the United States. There are other good sources in
                  Europe, as well.

                  The reproductions on this site are good to excellent.
                  http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=128

                  Although primarily known for patterns, this site has excellent
                  reproductions.
                  http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/props.php?s=&c=177&q=1

                  Replica glassware is also made in Jamestown, Virginia. The glassware
                  is dated later in North America and there is a well known time lag in
                  the availability of goods here compared to Europe. If you compare
                  the bottle shapes to those found in the Museum of London catalogue,
                  you will see that they are very, very similar.
                  http://www.eparks.com/store/search.asp?keyword=Repro1Bottles

                  In service to our Dream of the past,
                  Jehanne
                • JL Badgley
                  ... Are you dead-set on glass? Eadric the Potter (http://www.ironwoodpottery.com/) does some excellent recreations, and can probably outfit an entire table.
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 22, 2008
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                    On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 2:10 AM, julian wilson <smnco37@...> wrote:
                    > Good Gentles of the List,
                    > as part of the continuing attempt to improve our encampment and our feast
                    > ware/gear - we are seeking any glass manufacturer that offers replicas of
                    > medieval bottle designs.
                    > To get rid of the modern bottle shapes on our feast tables we intend to
                    > decant from modern bottles into some of "period" design.
                    > We "do" late 15th early 16th Century Western Europe in our Household, when a
                    > noble household would have bought wine by the cask, and the "Boutellier"
                    > would have decanted some into bottles belonging to the House, [part of the
                    > "re-useable Feastware"] whenever the Seigneur was entertaining high-status
                    > guests.
                    >
                    Are you dead-set on glass?

                    Eadric the Potter (http://www.ironwoodpottery.com/) does some
                    excellent recreations, and can probably outfit an entire table. If he
                    doesn't have what you want, contact him and he could probably make it,
                    especially if you have a picture of what you want. We have several
                    pieces from him and I have been amazed at the work every time, and
                    never disappointed with the price.


                    -E.
                  • Michael Hurley
                    ... Try The Northerner. ( http://www.northerner.com/ ) In their Historical Collection they have reproduction medieval drinking vessels and bottles. You may
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 22, 2008
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                      At 7:10 PM +0000 on 6/20/08, julian wilson wrote:

                      >Good Gentles of the List,
                      >as part of the continuing attempt to improve our encampment and our
                      >feast ware/gear - we are seeking any glass manufacturer that offers
                      >replicas of medieval bottle designs.
                      >To get rid of the modern bottle shapes on our feast tables we intend
                      >to decant from modern bottles into some of "period" design.
                      >We "do" late 15th early 16th Century Western Europe in our
                      >Household, when a noble household would have bought wine by the
                      >cask, and the "Boutellier" would have decanted some into bottles
                      >belonging to the House, [part of the "re-useable Feastware"]
                      >whenever the Seigneur was entertaining high-status guests.

                      Try The Northerner. ( http://www.northerner.com/ ) In their
                      Historical Collection they have reproduction medieval drinking
                      vessels and bottles. You may find something you like there.

                      Also, Medieval Design ( http://www.medievaldesign.com/indexengl.html
                      ) sells some bottles in their glass section.

                      >If anyone knows of modern vineyards which are still producing the
                      >same categories of wines as were imported into England between say
                      >1450AD and 1509AD, - would you be good enough to pass that info
                      >along to us? It would be so cool to serve something like Rhenish*,
                      >malmsey*, and claret* at our feast table, to complement redacted
                      >medieval "dishes". Wikipedia says what they* are without giving any
                      >idea if they are still produced anywhere! {I have posted this latter
                      >question on the Food & Feasts List - but their attention seems to be
                      >completely absorbed by the BoD's proposals concerning waterbearers,
                      >to the exclusion of all else.]

                      'Fraid I can't help you on this one, really. I don't drink. I do
                      know, however, that there are modern clarets. I have no idea how
                      close they are to medieval and early renaissance claret, though.
                      Rhenish and Malmsey are not terms I've seen before (I suppose I
                      should note that mundanely I work for a printing company and have
                      typed many a restaurant's wine menu for printing) but they may be
                      terms that have shifted to different modern words.
                      --
                      Auf wiedersehen!
                      Michael
                      ______________________________________________________
                      "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."

                      "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
                      of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
                      women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"

                      "..No."

                      "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"

                      -Real Genius
                    • Michael Hurley
                      ... Just for fun, I tried looking all three up in Wikipedia and Google. I m not sure how accurate any of this is, but it s a start.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 22, 2008
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                        At 7:10 PM +0000 on 6/20/08, julian wilson wrote:

                        >If anyone knows of modern vineyards which are still producing the
                        >same categories of wines as were imported into England between say
                        >1450AD and 1509AD, - would you be good enough to pass that info
                        >along to us? It would be so cool to serve something like Rhenish*,
                        >malmsey*, and claret* at our feast table, to complement redacted
                        >medieval "dishes". Wikipedia says what they* are without giving any
                        >idea if they are still produced anywhere! {I have posted this latter
                        >question on the Food & Feasts List - but their attention seems to be
                        >completely absorbed by the BoD's proposals concerning waterbearers,
                        >to the exclusion of all else.]

                        Just for fun, I tried looking all three up in Wikipedia and Google.
                        I'm not sure how accurate any of this is, but it's a start.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesling <-- Rhenish? (Not sure on this one)
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malvasia <-- Malmsey
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claret <-- Claret
                        --
                        Auf wiedersehen!
                        Michael
                        ______________________________________________________
                        "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."

                        "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
                        of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
                        women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"

                        "..No."

                        "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"

                        -Real Genius
                      • Cynthia J Ley
                        On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:48:51 -0000 Joan Mielke Yost ... ____________________________________________________________ Sweepstakes!!! Enter for your chance to
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 22, 2008
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                          On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:48:51 -0000 "Joan Mielke Yost"
                          <joan.mielke.yost@...> writes:
                          > Finding good glassware and ceramics is an obsession of mine because
                          > in
                          > a former incarnation I was an historical archaeologist. To my
                          > knowledge, wine was served at table from jugs, not bottles. Glass
                          > bottles did not come into wider use until the late 16th century, but
                          >
                          > the earliest ones were 10-12" around, squat and globular with a
                          > relatively short neck. They were handblown and made of very thick
                          > (1/2"+)dark green glass. They had a rough pontil scar on the
                          > bottom,
                          > but unlike later bottles, they did not have a "push up" or "kick
                          > up."
                          >
                          > This link has two pictures of stoneware bottles, as well as a green
                          > globular bottle. http://www.earlyglass.com/
                          >
                          > The Museum of London has a wonderful pictoral catalogue. There are
                          > only a few medieval glass items, but take a look at the 17th and
                          > 18th
                          > century page for lots of bottle designs. While the bottles are
                          > dated,
                          > at earliest, 1601, the forms go back further.
                          > http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ceramics/pages/glass.asp
                          >
                          > Jehanne
                          >
                          >

                          ____________________________________________________________
                          Sweepstakes!!!
                          Enter for your chance to WIN one of hundreds of daily prizes.
                          http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/JKFkuJi7Unnf2q7Dt2f9HdDUVAHtpxmok3t903fgkRPFTLONLWZKfX/
                        • i_odlin
                          ... Has anyone in the US bought from these folks before? They have some magnificent items on offer, but I m curious about how well cross-world purchasing
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 23, 2008
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                            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hurley <mephit@...> wrote:
                            > Also, Medieval Design ( http://www.medievaldesign.com/indexengl.html
                            > ) sells some bottles in their glass section.

                            Has anyone in the US bought from these folks before? They have some
                            magnificent items on offer, but I'm curious about how well cross-world
                            purchasing works with these folks.

                            Not to mention how good their stuff really is.

                            Thank you.
                            -Iain of Malagentia
                          • Tiffany Brown
                            ... Buller wines in Rutherglen, Victoria, Australia produces a malmsey. It is a very pleasant amber coloured fortified wine, reminiscent of a tokay. I have no
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jun 23, 2008
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                              2008/6/21 julian wilson <smnco37@...>:
                              > If anyone knows of modern vineyards which are still producing the same categories of wines as were imported into England between say 1450AD and 1509AD, - would you be good enough to pass that info along to us? It would be so cool to serve something like Rhenish*, malmsey*, and claret* at our feast table,

                              Buller wines in Rutherglen, Victoria, Australia produces a malmsey. It
                              is a very pleasant amber coloured fortified wine, reminiscent of a
                              tokay. I have no idea how similar it is to European Malmseys, let
                              alone period ones, but shiraz grown in the same region (due to the
                              soil and climate) is known to be very full bodied and strong, even for
                              an Australian shiraz (which themselves are known for their vigor).

                              The winery's website is here:
                              http://www.buller.com.au/index.html
                              and a page about the malmsey is here:
                              http://www.buller.com.au/source/pdf_wine_web/FO_Malmsey-web.pdf

                              I have no idea if they will ship small quantities overseas, or if they
                              have any european distributors, but they are a medium sized winery,
                              not a small boutique (they sell in national liquor chains in
                              australia) and their website has a special section for international
                              orders which encourages enquiries.

                              Of course, I'd find it very strange if someone in Europe wasn't still
                              producing these wines, but they may not be as internet enabled or
                              export orientated as Australian wineries..

                              good luck, and I would appreciate hearing anything further you find
                              out about how various wines available today compare to their medieval
                              and renaisance counterparts,

                              Teffania



                              --
                              . ___
                              {o,o} The blog you are not looking for
                              |)__) is definitely not at
                              -"-"- http://teffania.blogspot.com
                            • Beth and Bob Matney
                              ... I do not know of wines available quite that old. Though I have seen claret for sale, I have no idea how it compares to 15th-16th century types of that
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jun 23, 2008
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                                At 02:10 PM 6/20/2008, Matthew Baker wrote:

                                >If anyone knows of modern vineyards which are still producing the
                                >same categories of wines as were imported into England between say
                                >1450AD and 1509AD, - would you be good enough to pass that info
                                >along to us? It would be so cool to serve something like Rhenish*,
                                >malmsey*, and claret* at our feast table, to complement redacted
                                >medieval "dishes". Wikipedia says what they* are without giving any
                                >idea if they are still produced anywhere!

                                I do not know of wines available quite that old. Though I have seen
                                claret for sale, I have no idea how it compares to 15th-16th century
                                types of that name. The oldest wines that I have personally seen were
                                some 150 or so years old Madeiras. There are also some quite good
                                blends (incorporating actual antique stock) reproducing types of
                                Madeira from the early 18th-19th century that are surprisingly
                                reasonable in price (partnership between a bottler in New York and
                                producer on Madeira). Madeira was popular early because it travels
                                and keeps well. The Island was re-discovered and settled in the
                                early 15th C. but wine production and export became important in the
                                17th C and this may make it too late for your purposes.

                                Beth Matney
                              • Robert Van Rens
                                I ve purchased from Medieval Design before...my experiences with thier dress accessories, etc. have been very good. Custome contact can be tricky, due to the
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jun 23, 2008
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                                  I've purchased from Medieval Design before...my experiences with thier dress accessories, etc. have been very good. Custome contact can be tricky, due to the time difference, but I very much like the items I have purchased from them.

                                  Eadric the Potter Rob Van Rens www.ironwoodpottery.com
                                • lorddonal
                                  MODERATOR NOTE - As a courtesy to our many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top-post over previous messages and that
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jun 24, 2008
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                                    MODERATOR NOTE - As a courtesy to our many members who receive their list mail in digest form, we request that you not top-post over previous messages and that you delete any text from previous messages that does not require repetition. Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

                                    Message order edited:
                                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney
                                    <bmatney@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > At 02:10 PM 6/20/2008, Matthew Baker wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >If anyone knows of modern vineyards which are still producing the
                                    > >same categories of wines as were imported into England between
                                    > >say 1450AD and 1509AD, - would you be good enough to pass that
                                    > >info along to us?

                                    Rhenish wine was a clear white wine that is produced from the Rhine
                                    Valley.

                                    Malmsey was a strong, sweet white wine from Greece, originally from
                                    Monemvasia in the Peloponnese.

                                    Claret was a light red wine from Bordeaux.

                                    Donal O'Brien
                                  • digital.princess
                                    Greetings! I hope this is somewhat helpful... http://www.mittelalterglas.de/
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jun 24, 2008
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                                      Greetings!
                                      I hope this is somewhat helpful...
                                      http://www.mittelalterglas.de/
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