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box pleating

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  • Anora Marchaunt (Christa )
    I am looking for some help documenting box pleats. I have found several sources saying they are period but I am finding a lack of proof or how they have come
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 31, 2008
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      I am looking for some help documenting box pleats. I have found several
      sources saying they are period but I am finding a lack of "proof" or
      how they have come to this point. I've been trying to find an extant
      garment showing box pleats but I'm comming up short... Any one have any
      ideas?

      Anora
    • borderlands15213
      ... Hmm. Extant garment.... If you have a look through Arnold (Patterns of Fashion), specifically at Eleanora of Toledo s gown, you ll find it has only a few
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 1 4:40 AM
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Anora Marchaunt (Christa )"
        <anorathepain@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am looking for some help documenting box pleats. I have found several
        > sources saying they are period but I am finding a lack of "proof" or
        > how they have come to this point. I've been trying to find an extant
        > garment showing box pleats but I'm comming up short... Any one have any
        > ideas?


        Hmm. Extant garment....
        If you have a look through Arnold (Patterns of Fashion), specifically
        at Eleanora of Toledo's gown, you'll find it has only a few knife
        pleats. (I know: not box.) If you're perusing that volume, you might
        also double-check the men's trunk hose or pluderhose. I know some of
        those were paned, but they were lined and *something* had to be done
        with that fullness of the lining.
        *How* they came to that point of box pleating, I could only speculate.
        But there are some paintings which seem to depict box pleats on the
        skirts of gowns.
        These are from Bella Lucia da Verona's "Realm of Venus" site. Some
        are clear, and I would say conclusive; others, arguable only as
        "possibly" box pleated:

        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LaSchiavona.jpg

        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/SacredProfane.JPG
        (This is an allegorical painting, which might make it unacceptable to
        you as documentation or evidence.)

        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LicinioPOAL1533.JPG
        (Sleeve head/cap appears to be either box-pleated, or reverse
        box-pleated into the armscye, and again to the lower sleeve. Skirt
        *appears* to have been pleated---box or stacked box---rather than
        cartridge pleated, but we may have to content ourselves with the sleeve.)

        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Licinio21530s.JPG
        (possibly box pleats; stacked box pleats; or a combination of box
        pleats and some cartridge pleating. My own feeling is that these are
        stacked box pleats.)

        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lady1535.JPG
        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LICINIOCourtald.jpg

        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Venschunknown.jpg
        (skirt appears to have been pleated with the pleats' edges facing
        front and rear, in pairs)

        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LadyInWhite.jpg
        (maybe, maybe not; not cartridge-pleated, however)

        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lavinia1560.jpg


        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Fasolo1.JPG
        (The skirt appears to have been box-pleated, and the outer surface of
        the pleat eased to the waistline of the bodice.)

        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe//DomenicoTintorettoPOAGentlewomanWithHerDaughter.jpg
        (Not definite, but either knife-pleats or box pleats)

        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/MadonnadelleRose.jpg
        (Reasonably certain about this one.)

        From Jen Thompson's "Festive Attyre" site:
        http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/flor1.html

        http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/flor2.html
        (I'm not one-hundred percent certain, but pretty sure: look very
        closely between the crook of her left elbow and the edge of her apron.)

        http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/secondflor/secflor14.html
        (Pattern of light and shadow on the folds of the skirt suggest
        box-pleating.)

        From Mistress Oonagh O'Neill's web site:
        http://www.geocities.com/curvess2000/muff_in_sixteenth_century_dress.htm
        (Scroll down to the middle of the page and find four portraits
        clustered together: the first row, left side: Portrait of a Young
        Woman by Beccaruzzi. This, to me, is *very* clear.)

        I know you're looking for extant garments, but I hope this will be
        some little help, at least.

        Yseult the Gentle
      • Brad Moore
        Anora, I don t know of an extant garment, but I can point you toward a painting or two... Try The Mass of Bolsena (aka The Miracle of Bolsena) by Raphael in
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 1 8:31 PM
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          Anora,

          I don't know of an extant garment, but I can point you toward a painting or two... Try The Mass of Bolsena (aka The Miracle of Bolsena) by Raphael in the Stanza di Eliodoro in the Vatican. Another is The Expulsion of Heliodoros from the Temple, also by Raphael, same location. The M. of B. depicts the Swiss Guard in the lower right corner wearing pleated bases, the E. of H. depicts the Pope and his bearers (one of which is the artist himself) wearing almost identical pleated bases, but standing. I hope this helps, a little.

          Nicolas


          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
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        • alluwolf
          Anora, when and where are you trying to document them for? Are you just wanting to show they were used before 1600, or are you wanting to document using them
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 3 5:36 PM
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            Anora, when and where are you trying to document them for? Are you
            just wanting to show they were used before 1600, or are you wanting to
            document using them for something?

            Kath
          • anorathepain@aol.com
            well I am hoping for around 1530 tudor england but I would settle for before 1600.... Anora Sable, in pile a rose slipped and leaved argent and a feather Or.
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 4 9:28 AM
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              well I am hoping for around 1530 tudor england but I would settle for before 1600....

              Anora


              Sable, in pile a rose slipped and leaved argent and a feather Or.
              Ita erat quando hic adveni. (it was that way when I got here)
              Check out my Blogs
              Dragonsspine persona Quest http://scaquest.blogspot.com/
              My SCA Blog http://sewingnuts.blogspot.com/


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            • m d b
              ... for before 1600.... ... Sorry for the delay, Yahoo locked me in a loop of insanity when ever I tried logging in;)
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 24, 2008
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                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, anorathepain@... wrote:
                >
                > well I am hoping for around 1530 tudor england but I would settle
                for before 1600....
                >
                > Anora

                Sorry for the delay, Yahoo locked me in a loop of insanity when ever
                I tried logging in;)

                http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/ch00022g09a.jpg
                Nice clear sketc with what we would now call box pleats but really
                didn't have much of a name in period. Even the Victorians called them
                reverse pleats.
                http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/ch00022g14a.jpg
                From the same series this also appears to have box pleats.

                There really isn't anything special about a box pleat. Once you take
                a fold of fabric you can stack them, reverse them, make them narrow
                make them wider and overlap.... And given that the Eleanora di Toledo
                gown very definitely shows pleats angled towards the back- in fact
                there is a "reverse box" pleat right in the centre back there... well
                it then only comes down to a question of fashion over possibility.
                These pleats seem more common in Italian and Swiss styles.

                I would though recommend shaping skirts as well as pleating them. All
                the skirts prior to 1600 (and most beyond) in PoF are gored, as are
                all the skirts in Alcega (except the half circle underskirts- still
                they aren't tubes).

                regards,
                Willmeyne
                Michaela
                http://glittersweet.com
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