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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: table carpet

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  • Cynthia J Ley
    It s from a bunch of different sources--I ll try to hunt them down after work today. :-) Arlys On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:17:42 -0500 Amy Heilveil
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 3, 2008
      It's from a bunch of different sources--I'll try to hunt them down after
      work today. :-)

      Arlys

      On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:17:42 -0500 "Amy Heilveil" <amyheilveil@...>
      writes:
      > Arlys,
      >
      > Could you provide a reference for the information? I'd love to read
      > more about Turkey carpets and the like and your information sounds
      > like it comes from a source that would be very interesting indeed!
      >
      > Smiles,
      > Despina de la new butterfly to chase
    • Kammy
      I have a question dealing with table carpets, how big were they? Did they just fit the top of the table, or did they hang over the sides like table cloths?
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 3, 2008
        I have a question dealing with table carpets, how big were they? Did they
        just fit the top of the table, or did they hang over the sides like table
        cloths?

        Also, what types of designs were used? Were they geometric designs? Or the
        floral types that we think of in Turkish carpets today? Would it have been
        feasible for a Scottish household to have table carpets that were panels of
        knotwork?

        Any help or pointers to books would be helpful.

        In Service to the Dream;

        Anne Cameron

        . . . when are you going to understand that being normal is not a virtue, it
        rather denotes a lack of courage. -- Aunt Franny, Practical Magic
      • Kareina Talvi Tytär
        ... This exchange is a beautiful example of why it is helpful to cite one s sources within the text of whatever one is writing, particularly something like
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 3, 2008
          >Despina de la new butterfly to chase wrote:
          > > Could you provide a reference for the information? I'd love to read
          > > more about Turkey carpets and the like and your information sounds
          > > like it comes from a source that would be very interesting indeed!

          and Arlys replied:

          >It's from a bunch of different sources--I'll try to hunt them down after
          >work today. :-)

          This exchange is a beautiful example of why it is helpful to cite
          one's sources within the text of whatever one is writing,
          particularly something like notes for a class one is
          teaching! Sooner or later, someone *will* ask you where you found a
          piece of information. If you've got a habit of either using
          scientific notation and putting a parenthetical note right next to
          each fact such as: (Jones, 2001) or using one of the many other forms
          of citation, such as a footnote or endnote pointing to the source
          (which is listed in a bibliography showing useful details such as
          author, date, title, publisher, and anything else we'd need to find a
          copy), then when someone wants to know they can just go look it up
          for themselves, *and* you won't have to remember which bit came from
          where! Sure, it is a tiny bit more work at the time to link every
          fact with a source (or multiple sources!), but it saves much effort
          later when you want to go back and look at the source again!

          --Kareina, not picking on Arlys, but offering general advice to those
          who are new to the combination of research and writing it down to
          share with others, since in a list this size, there will be some!
        • Cynthia J Ley
          The Bradford shows various hunting and fishing scenes, with a pretty architectual rail across the top and bottom edges. Check under Victoria and Albert Museum,
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 3, 2008
            The Bradford shows various hunting and fishing scenes, with a pretty
            architectual rail across the top and bottom edges. Check under Victoria
            and Albert Museum, images, catalog #T.31-1914. The V&A is also pretty
            good about giving dimensions. This particular piece has a marked slant to
            it, probably generated by the fact that it's worked entirely in tent
            stitch, which is slanted.

            It's my general impression that they were placed on tabletops with no
            overhanging bits. They were an exercise in status, and what good are
            status symbols if folks can't ooo and ahh over them? 8-)

            Arlys (I know, dig up those sources already!) ;-)

            On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:47:39 -0700 "Kammy" <klchinnock@...>
            writes:
            > I have a question dealing with table carpets, how big were they? Did
            > they
            > just fit the top of the table, or did they hang over the sides like
            > table
            > cloths?
            >
            > Also, what types of designs were used? Were they geometric designs?
            > Or the
            > floral types that we think of in Turkish carpets today? Would it
            > have been
            > feasible for a Scottish household to have table carpets that were
            > panels of
            > knotwork?
            >
            > Any help or pointers to books would be helpful.
            >
            > In Service to the Dream;
            >
            > Anne Cameron
            >
            > . . . when are you going to understand that being normal is not a
            > virtue, it
            > rather denotes a lack of courage. -- Aunt Franny, Practical Magic
            >
            >
            >
          • Katherine Throckmorton
            ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 3, 2008
              On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Cynthia J Ley <cley@...> wrote:

              > The Bradford shows various hunting and fishing scenes, with a pretty
              > architectual rail across the top and bottom edges. Check under Victoria
              > and Albert Museum, images, catalog #T.31-1914. The V&A is also pretty
              > good about giving dimensions. This particular piece has a marked slant to
              > it, probably generated by the fact that it's worked entirely in tent
              > stitch, which is slanted.
              >
              > It's my general impression that they were placed on tabletops with no
              > overhanging bits. They were an exercise in status, and what good are
              > status symbols if folks can't ooo and ahh over them? 8-)
              >
              > Arlys (I know, dig up those sources already!) ;-)
              >
              > On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:47:39 -0700 "Kammy" <klchinnock@...<klchinnock%40comcast.net>
              > >
              > writes:
              >
              > > I have a question dealing with table carpets, how big were they? Did
              > > they
              > > just fit the top of the table, or did they hang over the sides like
              > > table
              > > cloths?
              > >
              > > Also, what types of designs were used? Were they geometric designs?
              > > Or the
              > > floral types that we think of in Turkish carpets today? Would it
              > > have been
              > > feasible for a Scottish household to have table carpets that were
              > > panels of
              > > knotwork?
              > >
              > > Any help or pointers to books would be helpful.
              > >
              > > In Service to the Dream;
              > >
              > > Anne Cameron
              > >
              > > . . . when are you going to understand that being normal is not a
              > > virtue, it
              > > rather denotes a lack of courage. -- Aunt Franny, Practical Magic
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • oisswafford
              ... Did they ... table ... designs? Or the ... have been ... panels of ... virtue, it ... Wow, I had no idea so many people would be interested. Here are some
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 3, 2008
                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Kammy" <klchinnock@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have a question dealing with table carpets, how big were they?
                Did they
                > just fit the top of the table, or did they hang over the sides like
                table
                > cloths?
                >
                > Also, what types of designs were used? Were they geometric
                designs? Or the
                > floral types that we think of in Turkish carpets today? Would it
                have been
                > feasible for a Scottish household to have table carpets that were
                panels of
                > knotwork?
                >
                > Any help or pointers to books would be helpful.
                >
                > In Service to the Dream;
                >
                > Anne Cameron
                >
                > . . . when are you going to understand that being normal is not a
                virtue, it
                > rather denotes a lack of courage. -- Aunt Franny, Practical Magic


                Wow, I had no idea so many people would be interested. Here are some
                links I could find - they are mostly images. The info I could find
                about how they were made mostly covered tent stitch, there was only
                one or two sources that talked about turkey stitch.

                http://www.sca.org.au/pipermail/wcob/2003-October/002217.html - info
                on the Lochac carpet and links about half way down

                http://www.geocities.com/keridwenthemouse/rowanycarpet.htm - info
                about the Rowany Carpet done in Lochac

                http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/Canvaswork1.html - info on
                how to do turkey work and bibliography for the book I first found
                mention of the carpets in: Elizabethan Treasures: The Hardwick Hall
                Textiles

                I'm sure Arlys has more documentation but that may get you started.
                It's what got me started.

                YIS
                Gwenlliana
              • Cynthia J Ley
                I hunted in a lot of places--basically every embroidery book I could lay my little paws on. Most useful was John L. Nevinson s _Catalogue of English Domestic
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 3, 2008
                  I hunted in a lot of places--basically every embroidery book I could lay
                  my little paws on. Most useful was John L. Nevinson's _Catalogue of
                  English Domestic Embroidery of the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries_.
                  London: Victoria and Albert department of Textiles, 1938; Chapter I.

                  Some books to look for:

                  Beck, Thomasina. The Embroiderer's Story, 1995.
                  Benn, Elizabeth, ed. Treasures From the Embroiderer's Guild Collection,
                  1991.
                  Christie, Grace. Embroidery and Tapestry Weaving, 1928.
                  Digby, George Wingfield. Elizabethan Embroidery, 1963.
                  Jourdain, M. History of English Secular Embroider, 1912.
                  Swain, Margaret. Scottish Embroidery: Medieval to Modern.

                  Search engines: Google is your friend.

                  Arlys


                  On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 01:18:25 -0000 "oisswafford" <oisswafford@...>
                  writes:
                  > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Kammy" <klchinnock@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I have a question dealing with table carpets, how big were they?
                  > Did they
                  > > just fit the top of the table, or did they hang over the sides
                  > like
                  > table
                  > > cloths?
                  > >
                  > > Also, what types of designs were used? Were they geometric
                  > designs? Or the
                  > > floral types that we think of in Turkish carpets today? Would it
                  > have been
                  > > feasible for a Scottish household to have table carpets that were
                  > panels of
                  > > knotwork?
                  > >
                  > > Any help or pointers to books would be helpful.
                  > >
                  > > In Service to the Dream;
                  > >
                  > > Anne Cameron
                  > >
                  > > . . . when are you going to understand that being normal is not a
                  > virtue, it
                  > > rather denotes a lack of courage. -- Aunt Franny, Practical Magic
                  >
                  >
                  > Wow, I had no idea so many people would be interested. Here are
                  > some
                  > links I could find - they are mostly images. The info I could find
                  > about how they were made mostly covered tent stitch, there was only
                  > one or two sources that talked about turkey stitch.
                  >
                  > http://www.sca.org.au/pipermail/wcob/2003-October/002217.html - info
                  >
                  > on the Lochac carpet and links about half way down
                  >
                  > http://www.geocities.com/keridwenthemouse/rowanycarpet.htm - info
                  > about the Rowany Carpet done in Lochac
                  >
                  > http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/Canvaswork1.html - info on
                  > how to do turkey work and bibliography for the book I first found
                  > mention of the carpets in: Elizabethan Treasures: The Hardwick Hall
                  >
                  > Textiles
                  >
                  > I'm sure Arlys has more documentation but that may get you started.
                  >
                  > It's what got me started.
                  >
                  > YIS
                  > Gwenlliana
                  >
                  >
                  >
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