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Re: Elizabethan era bedding

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  • borderlands15213
    I know Sarah can and will elucidate further on the subject of quilted bedding, since it s one of her areas of expertise, but I m going to jump in here, anyway.
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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      I know Sarah can and will elucidate further on the subject of quilted
      bedding, since it's one of her areas of expertise, but I'm going to
      jump in here, anyway. In Henry VIII's time, *cotton* was rather
      expensive. Any common man might have wool bedding to warm his
      slumbers. Wool was produced in England and in many countries, but in
      England cotton had to be imported, I believe.
      And Henry doesn't seem to have been a man to be balked when it came to
      his personal comfort, pleasure, or splendor.

      Yseult the Gentle

      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
      <labhaoise_obeachain@...> wrote:
      >
      > I supposed silk filled quilts would be too expensive for even a King in
      > period?
    • kittencat3@aol.com
      Silk was not used for quilt batting in period, and as far as I know, silk batts are modern (as in, within the last ten years or so). Japanese sashiko work
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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        Silk was not used for quilt batting in period, and as far as I know, silk
        batts are modern (as in, within the last ten years or so). Japanese sashiko
        work (which is post-period) is stuffed exclusively with cotton, as are Turkish
        yorgan (heavily stuffed quilts), Turkish quilted coats, and all the surviving
        European bedquilts from the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries.

        Sarah Davies, OL
        East



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      • kittencat3@aol.com
        Yseult - you re absolutely right about Henry. Check out his death inventory for the shock of your life - he had EVERYTHING imaginable, including silver
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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          Yseult - you're absolutely right about Henry. Check out his death inventory
          for the shock of your life - he had EVERYTHING imaginable, including silver
          knitting needles and two small linen quilts used as bathmats. It's almost
          terrifying to read.

          Sarah Davies



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        • Lorine Horvath
          Somehow I ve been fascinated by this thread, despite my usual interest falling 1000 years earlier. Are there any down-filled blankets? Really only cotton?
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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            Somehow I've been fascinated by this thread, despite my usual interest
            falling 1000 years earlier. Are there any down-filled blankets? Really
            only cotton? No wool? Inquiring minds...

            Fina

            --
            Also? I can kill you with my brain.

            River
            Firefly


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • wodeford
            ... silk ... sashiko ... are Turkish ... surviving ... While this doesn t help in terms of English bedclothes, descriptions of padded silk robes are found
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
              >
              > Silk was not used for quilt batting in period, and as far as I know,
              silk
              > batts are modern (as in, within the last ten years or so). Japanese
              sashiko
              > work (which is post-period) is stuffed exclusively with cotton, as
              are Turkish
              > yorgan (heavily stuffed quilts), Turkish quilted coats, and all the
              surviving
              > European bedquilts from the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries.

              While this doesn't help in terms of English bedclothes, descriptions
              of "padded" silk robes are found in the literature of Heian Japan
              (794-1185 CE). Mawata were made simply by stretching out a silk cocoon
              into a flat pad. Since these still had the gummy sericin in them, they
              could be laid between a lining and outer fabric for winter garments. I
              have not been able to find any description (admittedly in translations
              of documents into English from Japanese) of anything resembling
              quilting stitches to hold the mawata in place. Presumably the sericin
              was sufficient to do the job.

              Sashiko doesn't even begin as a quilting technique - it starts as
              darning: adding stitches to give strength to the work clothes of Edo
              period Japanese peasants. The quilted aspect evolves out of that.

              Saionji no Hanae
              West Kingdom
            • kittencat3@aol.com
              No down comforters as we know them, although there s the equivalent of a bed-in-a-bag (actually, several quilts plus a red cotton travel bag for carrying them
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                No down comforters as we know them, although there's the equivalent of a
                bed-in-a-bag (actually, several quilts plus a red cotton travel bag for carrying
                them in for the "The Bedde of Allensown" (bed of Alencon). There were over
                sixty linen quilts, all stuffed with wool, and about thirty silk quilts, all
                stuffed with cotton.

                An essay about the quilts (especially one I believe was originally Catherine
                of Aragon's wedding quilt) will be in the forthcoming volume of Medieval
                Clothing and Textiles, published in April. I just mailed off the galley proofs
                on Monday...:)

                Sarah Davies



                **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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              • kittencat3@aol.com
                That sounds fascinating! Can you point out any books that describe this? Someone on the Quilt History List was interested in silk batting a while back and
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                  That sounds fascinating! Can you point out any books that describe this?
                  Someone on the Quilt History List was interested in silk batting a while back
                  and will be very interested.

                  Also, how common was yosegire work? I know about the 16th century kimono
                  and would love to know more.

                  Sarah Davies



                  **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                  http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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                • wodeford
                  ... this? Sorry, I m about to dash out the door to Twelfth Night and I ll have to try to remember which diaries it s mentioned in. ... Pieced garments? It
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
                    >
                    > That sounds fascinating! Can you point out any books that describe
                    this?

                    Sorry, I'm about to dash out the door to Twelfth Night and I'll have
                    to try to remember which diaries it's mentioned in.

                    > Also, how common was yosegire work?

                    Pieced garments? It starts with kesa, a sort of shawl worn by Buddhist
                    monks. Originally as a sign of their poverty, these were pieced
                    together from rags and sewn into a mantle big enough for the mendicant
                    to wear. As time went on, these "rags" were often the finery of the
                    deceased, donated to the monks. Some kesa of this sort are quite opulent.

                    Again, I'll have to get back to you with more, but Seiroku Noma's
                    Japanese Costume and Textile Arts has there's a good discussion of
                    when and why piecing becomes fashionable in the 16th century. I have a
                    few examples on my web page (scroll down, they're toward the bottom):
                    http://www.wodefordhall.com/kosode.htm

                    Saionji no Hanae
                    West
                  • i_odlin
                    ... A word of caution on research in this subject: Throughout much of period, the word cotton meant fluffy wool. As with corn or scarlet, this can
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "borderlands15213"
                      <borderlands15213@...> wrote:
                      > In Henry VIII's time, *cotton* was rather expensive. Any common man
                      > might have wool bedding to warm his slumbers.

                      A word of caution on research in this subject:

                      Throughout much of period, the word "cotton" meant 'fluffy wool.'

                      As with 'corn' or 'scarlet,' this can cause a bit of confusion if you
                      are careless or simply didn't know.

                      [This is not meant to imply that I think anyone in the thread thus far
                      has got it wrong. It is simply and only meant as an FYI for anyone who
                      might not already know. C'd my A enough yet? :) ]

                      -Iain of Malagentia
                    • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                      (MODERATOR NOTE: please sign all posts to this list. Thank you, Despina) ... Corn means simply grain.... but scarlet???
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                        (MODERATOR NOTE: please sign all posts to this list. Thank you, Despina)

                        > As with 'corn' or 'scarlet,' this can cause a bit of confusion if you
                        > are careless or simply didn't know. *SNIP*

                        Corn means simply grain.... but scarlet???
                      • kittencat3@aol.com
                        The context of the entries in the death inventory made it very clear that the silk quilts were stuffed with cotton, not wool. Also, *every* surviving quilt
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                          The context of the entries in the death inventory made it very clear that
                          the silk quilts were stuffed with cotton, not wool. Also, *every* surviving
                          quilt from prior to 1700, without exception, is stuffed with cotton batting. I
                          think it's pretty safe to say that in this case, cotton was cotton and not
                          wool. :D

                          Sarah Davies



                          **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                          http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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                        • kittencat3@aol.com
                          **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 [Non-text portions
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                            **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                            http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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                          • kittencat3@aol.com
                            Scarlet originally meant a particular grade of fine wool cloth. It was often dyed with expensive cochineal or madder reds, so the name of the cloth
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                              "Scarlet" originally meant a particular grade of fine wool cloth. It was
                              often dyed with expensive cochineal or madder reds, so the name of the cloth
                              gradually transferred to the color.

                              Sarah Davies



                              **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                              http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                              Some things NEVER change... LOL It makes sense tho, you wouldn t waste expensive or complex dying processes on cheap or poor wearing cloth. And you might even
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
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                                Some things NEVER change...
                                LOL

                                It makes sense tho, you wouldn't waste expensive or complex dying
                                processes on cheap or poor wearing cloth. And you might even
                                (personnally or culturally) choose to use the rare/expensive dyes to
                                accent and display your ownership of this fine wool cloth
                                Labhaoise(who often asks why)


                                kittencat3@... wrote:
                                > "Scarlet" originally meant a particular grade of fine wool cloth.
                                It was
                                > often dyed with expensive cochineal or madder reds, so the name of
                                the cloth
                                > gradually transferred to the color.
                                >
                                > Sarah Davies
                              • sue_clemenger
                                ... you ... Yup. Scarlet refers to some specific kinds of wool cloth, and not just the color that we associate with the word. --Maire
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
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                                  --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
                                  <labhaoise_obeachain@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > As with 'corn' or 'scarlet,' this can cause a bit of confusion if
                                  you
                                  > > are careless or simply didn't know. *SNIP*
                                  >
                                  > Corn means simply grain.... but scarlet???
                                  >

                                  Yup. "Scarlet" refers to some specific kinds of wool cloth, and not
                                  just the color that we associate with the word.
                                  --Maire
                                • kittencat3@aol.com
                                  Conspicuous consumption has always been with us. Henry s death inventory includes a note of a patchwork quilt of orange and purple, almost certainly as a
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
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                                    Conspicuous consumption has always been with us. Henry's death inventory
                                    includes a note of a patchwork quilt of orange and purple, almost certainly as
                                    a means of showing that he was rich enough to afford these colors.

                                    Sarah



                                    **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                                    http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Chris Laning
                                    ... Documents describing such things as a green scarlet are certainly a clue here :) ____________________________________________________________ O (Dame)
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jan 14, 2008
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                                      On Jan 6, 2008, at 7:42 AM, sue_clemenger wrote:

                                      > Yup. "Scarlet" refers to some specific kinds of wool cloth, and not
                                      > just the color that we associate with the word.
                                      > --Maire


                                      Documents describing such things as "a green scarlet" are certainly a
                                      clue here :)
                                      ____________________________________________________________

                                      O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
                                      + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
                                      http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
                                      ____________________________________________________________
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