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Re: Elizabethan era bedding

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  • Karen
    You can get a lot of interesting descriptions of Elizabethan bedding in the wills of that era (see
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 3, 2008
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      You can get a lot of interesting descriptions of Elizabethan bedding in the wills of that era (see http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/Wills/WillsIntro.htm for some examples) -- I've collected some links on this subject at http://www.larsdatter.com/beds.htm (though for the V&A examples, go to http://images.vam.ac.uk and enter in the museum numbers there).

      There are more links on this general subject at http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/index.php?action=displaycat&catid=642 too.

      Karen
    • kittencat3@aol.com
      Henry VIII s death inventory gives some clues. Linen or cotton quilts, stuffed with wool, were used *on* the beds. Quilted silk coverlets were often used
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 3, 2008
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        Henry VIII's death inventory gives some clues. Linen or cotton quilts,
        stuffed with wool, were used *on* the beds. Quilted silk coverlets were often
        used as the topper. These were stuffed with cotton, oddly enough.

        Sarah Davies



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      • Labhaoise O'Beachain
        I supposed silk filled quilts would be too expensive for even a King in period? Labhaoise ... quilts, ... were often
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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          I supposed silk filled quilts would be too expensive for even a King in
          period?
          Labhaoise
          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
          > Henry VIII's death inventory gives some clues. Linen or cotton
          quilts,
          > stuffed with wool, were used *on* the beds. Quilted silk coverlets
          were often
          > used as the topper. These were stuffed with cotton, oddly enough.
          >
          > Sarah Davies
        • borderlands15213
          I know Sarah can and will elucidate further on the subject of quilted bedding, since it s one of her areas of expertise, but I m going to jump in here, anyway.
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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            I know Sarah can and will elucidate further on the subject of quilted
            bedding, since it's one of her areas of expertise, but I'm going to
            jump in here, anyway. In Henry VIII's time, *cotton* was rather
            expensive. Any common man might have wool bedding to warm his
            slumbers. Wool was produced in England and in many countries, but in
            England cotton had to be imported, I believe.
            And Henry doesn't seem to have been a man to be balked when it came to
            his personal comfort, pleasure, or splendor.

            Yseult the Gentle

            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
            <labhaoise_obeachain@...> wrote:
            >
            > I supposed silk filled quilts would be too expensive for even a King in
            > period?
          • kittencat3@aol.com
            Silk was not used for quilt batting in period, and as far as I know, silk batts are modern (as in, within the last ten years or so). Japanese sashiko work
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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              Silk was not used for quilt batting in period, and as far as I know, silk
              batts are modern (as in, within the last ten years or so). Japanese sashiko
              work (which is post-period) is stuffed exclusively with cotton, as are Turkish
              yorgan (heavily stuffed quilts), Turkish quilted coats, and all the surviving
              European bedquilts from the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries.

              Sarah Davies, OL
              East



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            • kittencat3@aol.com
              Yseult - you re absolutely right about Henry. Check out his death inventory for the shock of your life - he had EVERYTHING imaginable, including silver
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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                Yseult - you're absolutely right about Henry. Check out his death inventory
                for the shock of your life - he had EVERYTHING imaginable, including silver
                knitting needles and two small linen quilts used as bathmats. It's almost
                terrifying to read.

                Sarah Davies



                **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
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              • Lorine Horvath
                Somehow I ve been fascinated by this thread, despite my usual interest falling 1000 years earlier. Are there any down-filled blankets? Really only cotton?
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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                  Somehow I've been fascinated by this thread, despite my usual interest
                  falling 1000 years earlier. Are there any down-filled blankets? Really
                  only cotton? No wool? Inquiring minds...

                  Fina

                  --
                  Also? I can kill you with my brain.

                  River
                  Firefly


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • wodeford
                  ... silk ... sashiko ... are Turkish ... surviving ... While this doesn t help in terms of English bedclothes, descriptions of padded silk robes are found
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Silk was not used for quilt batting in period, and as far as I know,
                    silk
                    > batts are modern (as in, within the last ten years or so). Japanese
                    sashiko
                    > work (which is post-period) is stuffed exclusively with cotton, as
                    are Turkish
                    > yorgan (heavily stuffed quilts), Turkish quilted coats, and all the
                    surviving
                    > European bedquilts from the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries.

                    While this doesn't help in terms of English bedclothes, descriptions
                    of "padded" silk robes are found in the literature of Heian Japan
                    (794-1185 CE). Mawata were made simply by stretching out a silk cocoon
                    into a flat pad. Since these still had the gummy sericin in them, they
                    could be laid between a lining and outer fabric for winter garments. I
                    have not been able to find any description (admittedly in translations
                    of documents into English from Japanese) of anything resembling
                    quilting stitches to hold the mawata in place. Presumably the sericin
                    was sufficient to do the job.

                    Sashiko doesn't even begin as a quilting technique - it starts as
                    darning: adding stitches to give strength to the work clothes of Edo
                    period Japanese peasants. The quilted aspect evolves out of that.

                    Saionji no Hanae
                    West Kingdom
                  • kittencat3@aol.com
                    No down comforters as we know them, although there s the equivalent of a bed-in-a-bag (actually, several quilts plus a red cotton travel bag for carrying them
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                      No down comforters as we know them, although there's the equivalent of a
                      bed-in-a-bag (actually, several quilts plus a red cotton travel bag for carrying
                      them in for the "The Bedde of Allensown" (bed of Alencon). There were over
                      sixty linen quilts, all stuffed with wool, and about thirty silk quilts, all
                      stuffed with cotton.

                      An essay about the quilts (especially one I believe was originally Catherine
                      of Aragon's wedding quilt) will be in the forthcoming volume of Medieval
                      Clothing and Textiles, published in April. I just mailed off the galley proofs
                      on Monday...:)

                      Sarah Davies



                      **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                      http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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                    • kittencat3@aol.com
                      That sounds fascinating! Can you point out any books that describe this? Someone on the Quilt History List was interested in silk batting a while back and
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                        That sounds fascinating! Can you point out any books that describe this?
                        Someone on the Quilt History List was interested in silk batting a while back
                        and will be very interested.

                        Also, how common was yosegire work? I know about the 16th century kimono
                        and would love to know more.

                        Sarah Davies



                        **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
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                      • wodeford
                        ... this? Sorry, I m about to dash out the door to Twelfth Night and I ll have to try to remember which diaries it s mentioned in. ... Pieced garments? It
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
                          >
                          > That sounds fascinating! Can you point out any books that describe
                          this?

                          Sorry, I'm about to dash out the door to Twelfth Night and I'll have
                          to try to remember which diaries it's mentioned in.

                          > Also, how common was yosegire work?

                          Pieced garments? It starts with kesa, a sort of shawl worn by Buddhist
                          monks. Originally as a sign of their poverty, these were pieced
                          together from rags and sewn into a mantle big enough for the mendicant
                          to wear. As time went on, these "rags" were often the finery of the
                          deceased, donated to the monks. Some kesa of this sort are quite opulent.

                          Again, I'll have to get back to you with more, but Seiroku Noma's
                          Japanese Costume and Textile Arts has there's a good discussion of
                          when and why piecing becomes fashionable in the 16th century. I have a
                          few examples on my web page (scroll down, they're toward the bottom):
                          http://www.wodefordhall.com/kosode.htm

                          Saionji no Hanae
                          West
                        • i_odlin
                          ... A word of caution on research in this subject: Throughout much of period, the word cotton meant fluffy wool. As with corn or scarlet, this can
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "borderlands15213"
                            <borderlands15213@...> wrote:
                            > In Henry VIII's time, *cotton* was rather expensive. Any common man
                            > might have wool bedding to warm his slumbers.

                            A word of caution on research in this subject:

                            Throughout much of period, the word "cotton" meant 'fluffy wool.'

                            As with 'corn' or 'scarlet,' this can cause a bit of confusion if you
                            are careless or simply didn't know.

                            [This is not meant to imply that I think anyone in the thread thus far
                            has got it wrong. It is simply and only meant as an FYI for anyone who
                            might not already know. C'd my A enough yet? :) ]

                            -Iain of Malagentia
                          • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                            (MODERATOR NOTE: please sign all posts to this list. Thank you, Despina) ... Corn means simply grain.... but scarlet???
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                              (MODERATOR NOTE: please sign all posts to this list. Thank you, Despina)

                              > As with 'corn' or 'scarlet,' this can cause a bit of confusion if you
                              > are careless or simply didn't know. *SNIP*

                              Corn means simply grain.... but scarlet???
                            • kittencat3@aol.com
                              The context of the entries in the death inventory made it very clear that the silk quilts were stuffed with cotton, not wool. Also, *every* surviving quilt
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                                The context of the entries in the death inventory made it very clear that
                                the silk quilts were stuffed with cotton, not wool. Also, *every* surviving
                                quilt from prior to 1700, without exception, is stuffed with cotton batting. I
                                think it's pretty safe to say that in this case, cotton was cotton and not
                                wool. :D

                                Sarah Davies



                                **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                                http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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                              • kittencat3@aol.com
                                **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 [Non-text portions
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                                  **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                                  http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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                                • kittencat3@aol.com
                                  Scarlet originally meant a particular grade of fine wool cloth. It was often dyed with expensive cochineal or madder reds, so the name of the cloth
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                                    "Scarlet" originally meant a particular grade of fine wool cloth. It was
                                    often dyed with expensive cochineal or madder reds, so the name of the cloth
                                    gradually transferred to the color.

                                    Sarah Davies



                                    **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                                    http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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                                  • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                                    Some things NEVER change... LOL It makes sense tho, you wouldn t waste expensive or complex dying processes on cheap or poor wearing cloth. And you might even
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
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                                      Some things NEVER change...
                                      LOL

                                      It makes sense tho, you wouldn't waste expensive or complex dying
                                      processes on cheap or poor wearing cloth. And you might even
                                      (personnally or culturally) choose to use the rare/expensive dyes to
                                      accent and display your ownership of this fine wool cloth
                                      Labhaoise(who often asks why)


                                      kittencat3@... wrote:
                                      > "Scarlet" originally meant a particular grade of fine wool cloth.
                                      It was
                                      > often dyed with expensive cochineal or madder reds, so the name of
                                      the cloth
                                      > gradually transferred to the color.
                                      >
                                      > Sarah Davies
                                    • sue_clemenger
                                      ... you ... Yup. Scarlet refers to some specific kinds of wool cloth, and not just the color that we associate with the word. --Maire
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
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                                        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
                                        <labhaoise_obeachain@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > As with 'corn' or 'scarlet,' this can cause a bit of confusion if
                                        you
                                        > > are careless or simply didn't know. *SNIP*
                                        >
                                        > Corn means simply grain.... but scarlet???
                                        >

                                        Yup. "Scarlet" refers to some specific kinds of wool cloth, and not
                                        just the color that we associate with the word.
                                        --Maire
                                      • kittencat3@aol.com
                                        Conspicuous consumption has always been with us. Henry s death inventory includes a note of a patchwork quilt of orange and purple, almost certainly as a
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
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                                          Conspicuous consumption has always been with us. Henry's death inventory
                                          includes a note of a patchwork quilt of orange and purple, almost certainly as
                                          a means of showing that he was rich enough to afford these colors.

                                          Sarah



                                          **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                                          http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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                                        • Chris Laning
                                          ... Documents describing such things as a green scarlet are certainly a clue here :) ____________________________________________________________ O (Dame)
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jan 14, 2008
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                                            On Jan 6, 2008, at 7:42 AM, sue_clemenger wrote:

                                            > Yup. "Scarlet" refers to some specific kinds of wool cloth, and not
                                            > just the color that we associate with the word.
                                            > --Maire


                                            Documents describing such things as "a green scarlet" are certainly a
                                            clue here :)
                                            ____________________________________________________________

                                            O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
                                            + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
                                            http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
                                            ____________________________________________________________
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