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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Elizabethan era bedding

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  • kazoshea@aol.com
    In a message dated 1/2/2008 5:21:59 PM Central Standard Time, madeleinedelacroix@yahoo.com writes: Do anyone you know what a middle class Elizabethan would
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 2, 2008
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      In a message dated 1/2/2008 5:21:59 PM Central Standard Time,
      madeleinedelacroix@... writes:

      Do anyone you know what a
      middle class Elizabethan would have used for bedding..linen and wool??
      cotton would have been too expensive I think..any ideas on
      this??thanks for any input..



      Linen/Wool blend fabric or straight wool. Cotton would have been way too
      expensive to any but the Upper classes. The same goes for silk.

      Iago



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    • Rosie (aka Nawojka)
      Quilts were used. The outer layers were plain, usually off white, linen. The filling seemed to vary a bit. Sometimes wool batting, sometimes left over rags.
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 3, 2008
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        Quilts were used. The outer layers were plain, usually off white,
        linen. The filling seemed to vary a bit. Sometimes wool batting,
        sometimes left over rags. I'd imagine a middle class person would use
        rags rather than buying something special. There is a medieval quilting
        yahoo group, if you're interested in that.
        :)
        Rosie- not the quilting expert, but has read a bit about it.
      • Karen
        You can get a lot of interesting descriptions of Elizabethan bedding in the wills of that era (see
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 3, 2008
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          You can get a lot of interesting descriptions of Elizabethan bedding in the wills of that era (see http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/Wills/WillsIntro.htm for some examples) -- I've collected some links on this subject at http://www.larsdatter.com/beds.htm (though for the V&A examples, go to http://images.vam.ac.uk and enter in the museum numbers there).

          There are more links on this general subject at http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/index.php?action=displaycat&catid=642 too.

          Karen
        • kittencat3@aol.com
          Henry VIII s death inventory gives some clues. Linen or cotton quilts, stuffed with wool, were used *on* the beds. Quilted silk coverlets were often used
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 3, 2008
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            Henry VIII's death inventory gives some clues. Linen or cotton quilts,
            stuffed with wool, were used *on* the beds. Quilted silk coverlets were often
            used as the topper. These were stuffed with cotton, oddly enough.

            Sarah Davies



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          • Labhaoise O'Beachain
            I supposed silk filled quilts would be too expensive for even a King in period? Labhaoise ... quilts, ... were often
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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              I supposed silk filled quilts would be too expensive for even a King in
              period?
              Labhaoise
              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
              > Henry VIII's death inventory gives some clues. Linen or cotton
              quilts,
              > stuffed with wool, were used *on* the beds. Quilted silk coverlets
              were often
              > used as the topper. These were stuffed with cotton, oddly enough.
              >
              > Sarah Davies
            • borderlands15213
              I know Sarah can and will elucidate further on the subject of quilted bedding, since it s one of her areas of expertise, but I m going to jump in here, anyway.
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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                I know Sarah can and will elucidate further on the subject of quilted
                bedding, since it's one of her areas of expertise, but I'm going to
                jump in here, anyway. In Henry VIII's time, *cotton* was rather
                expensive. Any common man might have wool bedding to warm his
                slumbers. Wool was produced in England and in many countries, but in
                England cotton had to be imported, I believe.
                And Henry doesn't seem to have been a man to be balked when it came to
                his personal comfort, pleasure, or splendor.

                Yseult the Gentle

                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
                <labhaoise_obeachain@...> wrote:
                >
                > I supposed silk filled quilts would be too expensive for even a King in
                > period?
              • kittencat3@aol.com
                Silk was not used for quilt batting in period, and as far as I know, silk batts are modern (as in, within the last ten years or so). Japanese sashiko work
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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                  Silk was not used for quilt batting in period, and as far as I know, silk
                  batts are modern (as in, within the last ten years or so). Japanese sashiko
                  work (which is post-period) is stuffed exclusively with cotton, as are Turkish
                  yorgan (heavily stuffed quilts), Turkish quilted coats, and all the surviving
                  European bedquilts from the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries.

                  Sarah Davies, OL
                  East



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                • kittencat3@aol.com
                  Yseult - you re absolutely right about Henry. Check out his death inventory for the shock of your life - he had EVERYTHING imaginable, including silver
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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                    Yseult - you're absolutely right about Henry. Check out his death inventory
                    for the shock of your life - he had EVERYTHING imaginable, including silver
                    knitting needles and two small linen quilts used as bathmats. It's almost
                    terrifying to read.

                    Sarah Davies



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                  • Lorine Horvath
                    Somehow I ve been fascinated by this thread, despite my usual interest falling 1000 years earlier. Are there any down-filled blankets? Really only cotton?
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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                      Somehow I've been fascinated by this thread, despite my usual interest
                      falling 1000 years earlier. Are there any down-filled blankets? Really
                      only cotton? No wool? Inquiring minds...

                      Fina

                      --
                      Also? I can kill you with my brain.

                      River
                      Firefly


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                    • wodeford
                      ... silk ... sashiko ... are Turkish ... surviving ... While this doesn t help in terms of English bedclothes, descriptions of padded silk robes are found
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 4, 2008
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                        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Silk was not used for quilt batting in period, and as far as I know,
                        silk
                        > batts are modern (as in, within the last ten years or so). Japanese
                        sashiko
                        > work (which is post-period) is stuffed exclusively with cotton, as
                        are Turkish
                        > yorgan (heavily stuffed quilts), Turkish quilted coats, and all the
                        surviving
                        > European bedquilts from the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries.

                        While this doesn't help in terms of English bedclothes, descriptions
                        of "padded" silk robes are found in the literature of Heian Japan
                        (794-1185 CE). Mawata were made simply by stretching out a silk cocoon
                        into a flat pad. Since these still had the gummy sericin in them, they
                        could be laid between a lining and outer fabric for winter garments. I
                        have not been able to find any description (admittedly in translations
                        of documents into English from Japanese) of anything resembling
                        quilting stitches to hold the mawata in place. Presumably the sericin
                        was sufficient to do the job.

                        Sashiko doesn't even begin as a quilting technique - it starts as
                        darning: adding stitches to give strength to the work clothes of Edo
                        period Japanese peasants. The quilted aspect evolves out of that.

                        Saionji no Hanae
                        West Kingdom
                      • kittencat3@aol.com
                        No down comforters as we know them, although there s the equivalent of a bed-in-a-bag (actually, several quilts plus a red cotton travel bag for carrying them
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                          No down comforters as we know them, although there's the equivalent of a
                          bed-in-a-bag (actually, several quilts plus a red cotton travel bag for carrying
                          them in for the "The Bedde of Allensown" (bed of Alencon). There were over
                          sixty linen quilts, all stuffed with wool, and about thirty silk quilts, all
                          stuffed with cotton.

                          An essay about the quilts (especially one I believe was originally Catherine
                          of Aragon's wedding quilt) will be in the forthcoming volume of Medieval
                          Clothing and Textiles, published in April. I just mailed off the galley proofs
                          on Monday...:)

                          Sarah Davies



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                        • kittencat3@aol.com
                          That sounds fascinating! Can you point out any books that describe this? Someone on the Quilt History List was interested in silk batting a while back and
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                            That sounds fascinating! Can you point out any books that describe this?
                            Someone on the Quilt History List was interested in silk batting a while back
                            and will be very interested.

                            Also, how common was yosegire work? I know about the 16th century kimono
                            and would love to know more.

                            Sarah Davies



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                          • wodeford
                            ... this? Sorry, I m about to dash out the door to Twelfth Night and I ll have to try to remember which diaries it s mentioned in. ... Pieced garments? It
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                              --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, kittencat3@... wrote:
                              >
                              > That sounds fascinating! Can you point out any books that describe
                              this?

                              Sorry, I'm about to dash out the door to Twelfth Night and I'll have
                              to try to remember which diaries it's mentioned in.

                              > Also, how common was yosegire work?

                              Pieced garments? It starts with kesa, a sort of shawl worn by Buddhist
                              monks. Originally as a sign of their poverty, these were pieced
                              together from rags and sewn into a mantle big enough for the mendicant
                              to wear. As time went on, these "rags" were often the finery of the
                              deceased, donated to the monks. Some kesa of this sort are quite opulent.

                              Again, I'll have to get back to you with more, but Seiroku Noma's
                              Japanese Costume and Textile Arts has there's a good discussion of
                              when and why piecing becomes fashionable in the 16th century. I have a
                              few examples on my web page (scroll down, they're toward the bottom):
                              http://www.wodefordhall.com/kosode.htm

                              Saionji no Hanae
                              West
                            • i_odlin
                              ... A word of caution on research in this subject: Throughout much of period, the word cotton meant fluffy wool. As with corn or scarlet, this can
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "borderlands15213"
                                <borderlands15213@...> wrote:
                                > In Henry VIII's time, *cotton* was rather expensive. Any common man
                                > might have wool bedding to warm his slumbers.

                                A word of caution on research in this subject:

                                Throughout much of period, the word "cotton" meant 'fluffy wool.'

                                As with 'corn' or 'scarlet,' this can cause a bit of confusion if you
                                are careless or simply didn't know.

                                [This is not meant to imply that I think anyone in the thread thus far
                                has got it wrong. It is simply and only meant as an FYI for anyone who
                                might not already know. C'd my A enough yet? :) ]

                                -Iain of Malagentia
                              • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                                (MODERATOR NOTE: please sign all posts to this list. Thank you, Despina) ... Corn means simply grain.... but scarlet???
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                                  (MODERATOR NOTE: please sign all posts to this list. Thank you, Despina)

                                  > As with 'corn' or 'scarlet,' this can cause a bit of confusion if you
                                  > are careless or simply didn't know. *SNIP*

                                  Corn means simply grain.... but scarlet???
                                • kittencat3@aol.com
                                  The context of the entries in the death inventory made it very clear that the silk quilts were stuffed with cotton, not wool. Also, *every* surviving quilt
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                                    The context of the entries in the death inventory made it very clear that
                                    the silk quilts were stuffed with cotton, not wool. Also, *every* surviving
                                    quilt from prior to 1700, without exception, is stuffed with cotton batting. I
                                    think it's pretty safe to say that in this case, cotton was cotton and not
                                    wool. :D

                                    Sarah Davies



                                    **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
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                                  • kittencat3@aol.com
                                    **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 [Non-text portions
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                                      **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
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                                    • kittencat3@aol.com
                                      Scarlet originally meant a particular grade of fine wool cloth. It was often dyed with expensive cochineal or madder reds, so the name of the cloth
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jan 5, 2008
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                                        "Scarlet" originally meant a particular grade of fine wool cloth. It was
                                        often dyed with expensive cochineal or madder reds, so the name of the cloth
                                        gradually transferred to the color.

                                        Sarah Davies



                                        **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                                        http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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                                      • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                                        Some things NEVER change... LOL It makes sense tho, you wouldn t waste expensive or complex dying processes on cheap or poor wearing cloth. And you might even
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
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                                          Some things NEVER change...
                                          LOL

                                          It makes sense tho, you wouldn't waste expensive or complex dying
                                          processes on cheap or poor wearing cloth. And you might even
                                          (personnally or culturally) choose to use the rare/expensive dyes to
                                          accent and display your ownership of this fine wool cloth
                                          Labhaoise(who often asks why)


                                          kittencat3@... wrote:
                                          > "Scarlet" originally meant a particular grade of fine wool cloth.
                                          It was
                                          > often dyed with expensive cochineal or madder reds, so the name of
                                          the cloth
                                          > gradually transferred to the color.
                                          >
                                          > Sarah Davies
                                        • sue_clemenger
                                          ... you ... Yup. Scarlet refers to some specific kinds of wool cloth, and not just the color that we associate with the word. --Maire
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
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                                            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
                                            <labhaoise_obeachain@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > As with 'corn' or 'scarlet,' this can cause a bit of confusion if
                                            you
                                            > > are careless or simply didn't know. *SNIP*
                                            >
                                            > Corn means simply grain.... but scarlet???
                                            >

                                            Yup. "Scarlet" refers to some specific kinds of wool cloth, and not
                                            just the color that we associate with the word.
                                            --Maire
                                          • kittencat3@aol.com
                                            Conspicuous consumption has always been with us. Henry s death inventory includes a note of a patchwork quilt of orange and purple, almost certainly as a
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jan 6, 2008
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                                              Conspicuous consumption has always been with us. Henry's death inventory
                                              includes a note of a patchwork quilt of orange and purple, almost certainly as
                                              a means of showing that he was rich enough to afford these colors.

                                              Sarah



                                              **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                                              http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


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                                            • Chris Laning
                                              ... Documents describing such things as a green scarlet are certainly a clue here :) ____________________________________________________________ O (Dame)
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jan 14, 2008
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                                                On Jan 6, 2008, at 7:42 AM, sue_clemenger wrote:

                                                > Yup. "Scarlet" refers to some specific kinds of wool cloth, and not
                                                > just the color that we associate with the word.
                                                > --Maire


                                                Documents describing such things as "a green scarlet" are certainly a
                                                clue here :)
                                                ____________________________________________________________

                                                O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
                                                + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
                                                http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
                                                ____________________________________________________________
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