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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Remember, remember the Fifth of November

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  • Ceindrych merch Riacat
    Carrie Barnes wrote:
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 10, 2007
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      Carrie Barnes <cbarne3@...> wrote: << Well some of us are Catholic (and as one who is very active in Church activities) I am neither offended nor upset by placing the poem here. As a matter of fact would you like to recount the attrocities that were commited in the name of the church. Don't try to sanitize history, the Catholic church did some horrible things in the name of politics. >>


      Perhaps it is more accurate to say that those who were fortunate enough to attain a position of political power did some horrible things in the name of their respective religions (Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, whatever).


      <<The denial of events or opinions that are counter to our own beliefs merely due to their status as "other" can be a very dangerous behavior. >>


      I do not deny historical events or opinions. I merely expressed my surprise at seeing such violently hateful (not quite period) propaganda reproduced without comment or credit on a Yahoo message board in 2007. Perhaps I am sensitized to the perpetuation of religious bigotry because of the abuse our Indian Sikh neighbors (no connection whatsoever to Islam) and our Muslim friends endured after 9-11 from persons who couldn't (or didn't want to) understand the difference between radical Taliban terrorists and those who practice true Islam (or not even Islam at all).



      << If we cannot acknowledge and accept history (whether you choose to embrace those viewpoints expressed, or not), then we are ever the more apt to repeat our species' past
      mistakes. Remember, even Hitler was an important figure in history. >>


      But I would not post anti-semitic Nazi propaganda on a WWII reenactors' message board.


      << It is important that we be respectful of one another, here. But it is equally important that we do not censor historical events as a way of shielding ourselves from the reality of the path that brought us to our present status as human beings.>>


      Which, considering institutions such as Nazism, Communism, and the Taliban -- 400 years after the Gunpowder Plot -- doesn't exactly testify positively to the advancement and dignity of our present status as human beings.

      Sorry to rile so many feathers with my initial reaction.



      Ceindrych merch Riacat
      Wales, 607 AD
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      Chatelaine
      Shire of Drakelaw
      Middle Kingdom
      2007 AD
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    • Edwin Hewitt
      ... Edwin of Runedun, Caid, replies: I am RC mundanely, and yet historically-based and researched poetry such as posted recently bothers me not a pin. Indeed,
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 23, 2007
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
        > Assuming the world is represented in sub-sets of the world, should we
        > totally sanitize everything to avoid the possibility of offending
        > anyone? Should we not even talk about battles when religion was
        > involved?
        > AElflaed of Duckford
        > Outlands

        Edwin of Runedun, Caid, replies:
        I am RC mundanely, and yet historically-based and researched poetry
        such as posted recently bothers me not a pin. Indeed, I find it
        refreshing that we can acknowledge the troubled past in an amicable
        present. That is the way of the SCA isn't it?

        One of my favorite memories is of a "discussion" presented at a
        Collegium between a Crusader and a Muslim warrior, both of whom told
        the story of a particular battle from their side of the conflict. The
        two folks in particular were quite good friends - and the discussion
        quite lively.

        I far prefer these "biased" but researched poems and discussions to
        the "innocuous" Mel Brooks / Monty Pythonesque parodies of the
        Medieval Church which I more often see.

        All the best,
        Edwin
      • julian wilson
        Gentles of the List following this thread, Sanitising everything is simply a mealy-mouthed way of saying one approves censoring everything that you don t- or
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 24, 2007
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          Gentles of the List following this thread,
          "Sanitising" everything is simply a mealy-mouthed way of saying one approves censoring everything that you don't- or someone else doesn't- agree with.
          That way lies the Tyranny of "Them". And who authorises "Them" the power to ultimately control our thoughts and our freedom of speech?
          "Quis ipsos custodies?" And who appoints and gives "oversight" to such "guardians of the public Weal"?
          . The 20th Century should be our lesson here - the Western World fought hot and "Cold" wars to preserve freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of democracy - for nations too politically- or militarily-weak to protect themselves from tyranny - either political or religious.
          The West hasn't been perfect at doing this, - but the results have been a great deal better for the ultimate good of Humanity - than would have been dictatorship by Imperial Germany, the Nazi State, the Italian Facisti, the Soviets and their Satellites, the Khmer Rouge - to name only a few of the obscene Regimes which would ultimately have controlled the thoughts and freedom of speech of the citizenry under their power.

          I was baptised and raised "High Anglican" Church of England.
          My re-enactment Persona is in re-creating a minor English noble, who lived between 1458 and 1509; and was therefore a member of the Catholic Church of Rome, before the Schism.
          I have no problems in reconciling the two differing mindsets; - because I believe that God knows the Secrets of my Heart, and therefore knows I intend no blasphemies.

          In humble service to the Kingdom of Drachenwald, and to The Light,
          Matthew Baker


          Edwin Hewitt <brogoose@...> wrote:
          --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Dodd wrote:
          > Assuming the world is represented in sub-sets of the world, should we
          > totally sanitize everything to avoid the possibility of offending
          > anyone? Should we not even talk about battles when religion was
          > involved?
          > AElflaed of Duckford
          > Outlands

          Edwin of Runedun, Caid, replies:
          I am RC mundanely, and yet historically-based and researched poetry
          such as posted recently bothers me not a pin. Indeed, I find it
          refreshing that we can acknowledge the troubled past in an amicable
          present. That is the way of the SCA isn't it?

          One of my favorite memories is of a "discussion" presented at a
          Collegium between a Crusader and a Muslim warrior, both of whom told
          the story of a particular battle from their side of the conflict. The
          two folks in particular were quite good friends - and the discussion
          quite lively.

          I far prefer these "biased" but researched poems and discussions to
          the "innocuous" Mel Brooks / Monty Pythonesque parodies of the
          Medieval Church which I more often see.

          All the best,
          Edwin



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        • Maxamillan Wolfram von Schleuter
          ... wrote: ultimate good of Humanity - than would have been dictatorship by Imperial Germany, What dictorship? Your history is very poor if you really belive
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 26, 2007
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, julian wilson <smnco37@...>
            wrote:
            ultimate good of Humanity - than would have been dictatorship by
            Imperial Germany,

            What dictorship? Your history is very poor if you really belive there
            was an Imperial Dictatorship!

            Imperial Germany was a far more liberal than America of the day. There
            was no color bar to vote, free schooling for ALL, and in fact they had
            a slightly left of center government in 1914.

            Please do not whitewash a war with fake good Vs wrong!

            Maks
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