Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Authentic_SCA] Bedes Byddyng (CA #135)

Expand Messages
  • Katherine Throckmorton
    ... I think that most of us, you look at your own work and only see the flaws. I thought that it was a very good monograph. It was clearly written, and it was
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 15, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Chris Laning wrote:
      >
      > >OTOH, I hadn't seen it since I turned in the manuscript six months
      > >ago, and I am now grimacing over the typos, formatting mistakes and
      > >bits of authorial disorganization that made it into the printed
      > >version. I'll do better next time: but I'm happy to have it to offer.
      >






      I think that most of us, you look at your own work and only see the flaws.
      I thought that it was a very good monograph. It was clearly written, and it
      was obviously carefully researched. Importantly for a SCA audience, it
      struck a good balance between explaining the history of the item and
      explaining how to recreate it. I almost wish that you had limited the scope
      to Western Christian rosaries and paternosters, if only because the
      discussion of prayer beads outside of that context, although interesting,
      seemed cursory and incomplete compared to the through discussion of rosaries
      and paternosters in Western Europe. But that is a fairly niggling criticism
      of what was a otherwise exemplary CA.

      -Katherine


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Chris Laning
      ... Thanks for the compliments! Part of the reason the section on Islamic prayer beads is sketchy is that I have yet to find any recent scholarship on the
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 15, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Katherine Throckmorton <katherine.throckmorton@...> wrote:
        >>I think that most of us, you look at your own work and only see the flaws.
        >I thought that it was a very good monograph. It was clearly written, and it
        >was obviously carefully researched. Importantly for a SCA audience, it
        >struck a good balance between explaining the history of the item and
        >explaining how to recreate it. I almost wish that you had limited the scope
        >to Western Christian rosaries and paternosters, if only because the
        >discussion of prayer beads outside of that context, although interesting,
        >seemed cursory and incomplete compared to the through discussion of rosaries
        >and paternosters in Western Europe. But that is a fairly niggling criticism
        >of what was a otherwise exemplary CA.

        Thanks for the compliments!

        Part of the reason the section on Islamic prayer beads is sketchy is that I have yet to find any recent scholarship on the subject. There are some sources from the early 20th century, which I did use, but so far I haven't turned up any scholars who are actually working on them. I'm hoping a seminar coming up next spring will put me in touch with someone who knows a bit more. (Of course, I'm sure it doesn't help either that I don't read Arabic and am not a Muslim.)

        Also, if the history of Islamic prayer beads is in anywhere near the same category as research into the history of the Koran, then it's also possible that the basic research has simply not been done. Apparently the history of the Koran is a very sensitive subject, since it is regarded by Muslims as direct revelation from God. If it is thought to date back to the time of the Prophet, it's possible the history of prayer beads might be equally sensitive.

        Christian de Holacombe

        ____________________________________________________________
        0 Chris Laning
        | <claning@...>
        + Davis, California
        http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
        ____________________________________________________________
      • Katherine Throckmorton
        ... In Islamic Studies pretty much the only topic that no one wants to touch is the historicity of the Quran. The closest that a few scholars are willing to
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 15, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Christian de Holacombe wrote:

          > >Also, if the history of Islamic prayer beads is in anywhere near the same
          > category >as research into the history of the Koran, then it's also possible
          > that the basic >research has simply not been done. Apparently the history of
          > the Koran is a very >sensitive subject, since it is regarded by Muslims as
          > direct revelation from God. If it >is thought to date back to the time of
          > the Prophet, it's possible the history of prayer >beads might be equally
          > sensitive.
          >








          In Islamic Studies pretty much the only topic that no one wants to touch is
          the historicity of the Quran. The closest that a few scholars are willing
          to come is taking a very careful look at the process of the codification of
          the Quran, but no one wants to come right out and question the actual
          revelation.

          That said, in terms of Islam, pretty much every other topic is on the
          table. Indeed, within Islam there is a very long tradition of textual
          criticism aimed at figuring out if a given report about what Muhammad said
          is likely to be accurate or not. There is also a long tradition of being
          somewhat suspicious of religious innovation, which means that there has been
          a long tradition of looking at things like tasbihs and dikhir and trying to
          determine if they are legitimate religious practice or not. So studying the
          history of tasbih is not something that scholars would avoid because it is a
          sensitive topic.

          I think that you are correct that the primary scholarship hasn't been done,
          but this is largely because in Islamic studies there is a general dearth of
          scholarship that looks at the *history* of popular religious practice
          systematically. And there is even less that looks at the material culture
          associated with This means that all of the information that is out there
          is going to be buried in discussions of something else. On the other hand,
          I would say that it is likely that there is likely to be a fair amount of
          information out there, given how widespread tasbih's have been, and that
          tasbih's are frequently brought up as an example of a "good bidah", that is,
          a practice that emerged after the time of Muhammad that is nonetheless as
          good thing. Of course, none of these sources are likely to be overly
          concerned about what the tasbih is made of :(

          -Katie (since Katherine knows nothing about the beliefs and practices of
          mohammadeans, and fervently hopes she never finds out, and Asma finds the
          idea that anyone would object to a tasbih incredible)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.