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Bedes Byddyng (CA #135)

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  • Chris Laning
    Just in case anyone doesn t automatically subscribe to the Compleat Anachronist here... For anyone interested, my booklet Bedes Byddyng: Medieval Rosaries and
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 14, 2007
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      Just in case anyone doesn't automatically subscribe to the Compleat
      Anachronist here...

      For anyone interested, my booklet "Bedes Byddyng: Medieval Rosaries
      and Paternoster Beads" has been published (finally!) as Compleat
      Anachronist #135, and is available at $4.50 per copy at: https://
      secure.sca.org/cgi-bin/stockclerk/ca.html (Go to page 14 and scroll
      down).

      It's a short introduction to the history of rosary beads (mostly
      Christian ones), along with a look at the social history: what
      materials were used for beads, threads and accessories; numbers and
      significance of beads; how rosaries were made, sold, worn, and used;
      and a few pointers on how to tell whether a string of beads is a
      rosary or not. There is also an appendix with instructions on making
      a rather generic set of medieval-style beads.

      I was determined to do my very best at authenticity on this, and in
      that, I think I succeeded pretty well. It was stressful to write, but
      satisfying.

      OTOH, I hadn't seen it since I turned in the manuscript six months
      ago, and I am now grimacing over the typos, formatting mistakes and
      bits of authorial disorganization that made it into the printed
      version. I'll do better next time: but I'm happy to have it to offer.

      I'd be interested in anyone's comments once you've read it.
      ____________________________________________________________

      O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
      + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
      http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
      ____________________________________________________________
    • Christine Taylor
      MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our many members who receive their messages in digest form, please do not top post and please be sure to remove any part of
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 14, 2007
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        MODERATOR NOTE: As a courtesy to our many members who receive their messages in digest form, please do not "top post" and please be sure to remove any part of the previous message that does not require repeating. Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

        (MESSAGE ORDER REVERSED AND SNIPPED)
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of Chris Laning
        Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 9:13 PM
        To: Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Authentic_SCA] Bedes Byddyng (CA #135)

        For anyone interested, my booklet "Bedes Byddyng: Medieval Rosaries
        and Paternoster Beads" has been published (finally!) as Compleat
        Anachronist #135, and is available at $4.50 per copy at: https://
        secure.sca.org/cgi-bin/stockclerk/ca.html (Go to page 14 and scroll
        down).

        Congratulations!

        Caitlin
      • Katherine Throckmorton
        ... I think that most of us, you look at your own work and only see the flaws. I thought that it was a very good monograph. It was clearly written, and it was
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 15, 2007
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          Chris Laning wrote:
          >
          > >OTOH, I hadn't seen it since I turned in the manuscript six months
          > >ago, and I am now grimacing over the typos, formatting mistakes and
          > >bits of authorial disorganization that made it into the printed
          > >version. I'll do better next time: but I'm happy to have it to offer.
          >






          I think that most of us, you look at your own work and only see the flaws.
          I thought that it was a very good monograph. It was clearly written, and it
          was obviously carefully researched. Importantly for a SCA audience, it
          struck a good balance between explaining the history of the item and
          explaining how to recreate it. I almost wish that you had limited the scope
          to Western Christian rosaries and paternosters, if only because the
          discussion of prayer beads outside of that context, although interesting,
          seemed cursory and incomplete compared to the through discussion of rosaries
          and paternosters in Western Europe. But that is a fairly niggling criticism
          of what was a otherwise exemplary CA.

          -Katherine


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        • Chris Laning
          ... Thanks for the compliments! Part of the reason the section on Islamic prayer beads is sketchy is that I have yet to find any recent scholarship on the
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 15, 2007
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            Katherine Throckmorton <katherine.throckmorton@...> wrote:
            >>I think that most of us, you look at your own work and only see the flaws.
            >I thought that it was a very good monograph. It was clearly written, and it
            >was obviously carefully researched. Importantly for a SCA audience, it
            >struck a good balance between explaining the history of the item and
            >explaining how to recreate it. I almost wish that you had limited the scope
            >to Western Christian rosaries and paternosters, if only because the
            >discussion of prayer beads outside of that context, although interesting,
            >seemed cursory and incomplete compared to the through discussion of rosaries
            >and paternosters in Western Europe. But that is a fairly niggling criticism
            >of what was a otherwise exemplary CA.

            Thanks for the compliments!

            Part of the reason the section on Islamic prayer beads is sketchy is that I have yet to find any recent scholarship on the subject. There are some sources from the early 20th century, which I did use, but so far I haven't turned up any scholars who are actually working on them. I'm hoping a seminar coming up next spring will put me in touch with someone who knows a bit more. (Of course, I'm sure it doesn't help either that I don't read Arabic and am not a Muslim.)

            Also, if the history of Islamic prayer beads is in anywhere near the same category as research into the history of the Koran, then it's also possible that the basic research has simply not been done. Apparently the history of the Koran is a very sensitive subject, since it is regarded by Muslims as direct revelation from God. If it is thought to date back to the time of the Prophet, it's possible the history of prayer beads might be equally sensitive.

            Christian de Holacombe

            ____________________________________________________________
            0 Chris Laning
            | <claning@...>
            + Davis, California
            http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
            ____________________________________________________________
          • Katherine Throckmorton
            ... In Islamic Studies pretty much the only topic that no one wants to touch is the historicity of the Quran. The closest that a few scholars are willing to
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 15, 2007
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              Christian de Holacombe wrote:

              > >Also, if the history of Islamic prayer beads is in anywhere near the same
              > category >as research into the history of the Koran, then it's also possible
              > that the basic >research has simply not been done. Apparently the history of
              > the Koran is a very >sensitive subject, since it is regarded by Muslims as
              > direct revelation from God. If it >is thought to date back to the time of
              > the Prophet, it's possible the history of prayer >beads might be equally
              > sensitive.
              >








              In Islamic Studies pretty much the only topic that no one wants to touch is
              the historicity of the Quran. The closest that a few scholars are willing
              to come is taking a very careful look at the process of the codification of
              the Quran, but no one wants to come right out and question the actual
              revelation.

              That said, in terms of Islam, pretty much every other topic is on the
              table. Indeed, within Islam there is a very long tradition of textual
              criticism aimed at figuring out if a given report about what Muhammad said
              is likely to be accurate or not. There is also a long tradition of being
              somewhat suspicious of religious innovation, which means that there has been
              a long tradition of looking at things like tasbihs and dikhir and trying to
              determine if they are legitimate religious practice or not. So studying the
              history of tasbih is not something that scholars would avoid because it is a
              sensitive topic.

              I think that you are correct that the primary scholarship hasn't been done,
              but this is largely because in Islamic studies there is a general dearth of
              scholarship that looks at the *history* of popular religious practice
              systematically. And there is even less that looks at the material culture
              associated with This means that all of the information that is out there
              is going to be buried in discussions of something else. On the other hand,
              I would say that it is likely that there is likely to be a fair amount of
              information out there, given how widespread tasbih's have been, and that
              tasbih's are frequently brought up as an example of a "good bidah", that is,
              a practice that emerged after the time of Muhammad that is nonetheless as
              good thing. Of course, none of these sources are likely to be overly
              concerned about what the tasbih is made of :(

              -Katie (since Katherine knows nothing about the beliefs and practices of
              mohammadeans, and fervently hopes she never finds out, and Asma finds the
              idea that anyone would object to a tasbih incredible)


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