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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: looking for Documentation on leather drawstring pouches

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  • Elizabeth Walpole
    Thank you i went to the site and did what you said. they are not ... Sorry if people get this twice I accidentally double clicked on the reply button,
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 31 2:45 AM
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      <snip> Thank you i went to the site and did what you said. they are not
      > exactly what i was thinking of what i was making was basicly a
      > leather circle that is drawn up with pull strings and hung of the
      > belt like seen in the movies.

      Sorry if people get this twice I accidentally double clicked on the reply
      button, which turns into the send button once you've clicked on it once so
      the second click was actually hitting send
      Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've heard that we don't have any evidence for
      pouches which are cut as a single circle with the edges gathered in period,
      it's not the most efficient use of a piece of fabric or leather (you've got
      to cut off all the corners and it's not very secure (easy for pickpockets to
      gain access to). Of course this could be one of those costuming myths but I
      think you need to start searching for circle pouches in any medium before
      limiting yourself to just leather.
      Elizabeth
      --------------------------------------------
      Elizabeth Walpole | Elizabeth Beaumont
      Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac
      http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/
    • Adele de Maisieres
      ... What is nonsense, exactly? The idea that you ll have more success if you do the research before the project? -- Adele de Maisieres ... Habeo metrum -
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 31 5:09 PM
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        Robert Van Rens wrote:
        >> Um, I think the main problem you're having is that you've decided what
        >> to make and now you're trying to ind a justification for it.
        >>
        >
        > Nonsense. Offhand, I can think of two huntsmen from Gaston Phebus that have
        > pouches like those described; some quick research will turn up others. Drew
        > Shoemaker makes a similar type of pouch; chskc his website and see if he
        > lists his source there.
        >

        What is nonsense, exactly? The idea that you'll have more success if
        you do the research before the project?

        --
        Adele de Maisieres

        -----------------------------
        Habeo metrum - musicamque,
        hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
        -Georgeus Gershwinus
        -----------------------------
      • Sandra Dodd
        -=-I don t think anyone is disputing that. But there s a huge leap between an etymological clue on the appearance purses and the materials and construction of
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 1, 2007
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          -=-I don't think anyone is disputing that. But there's a huge leap
          between
          an etymological clue on the appearance purses and the materials and
          construction of a purse at any given time and place. -=-

          Not always so huge.
          Finding a term often produces a quote. Finding a quote often proves
          a date. It's not going to work with every single thing, nor will it
          fail or need to be dismissed with every single thing. Examples:
          ballad, carol, fillet (such terms as "metal fillet" proves the term
          was general and one of metal shared attributes with those of leather
          or fish).

          -=-> More modern pouches with cutting and re-sewing (like leather marble
          > bags, or "medicine bags") are all well and good and historically
          > followable, but so are single-sheet containers.
          >
          -=-Documentation?-=-

          Experience and confidence. Seen examples; didn't collect quotes or
          illustrations, but they're out there.

          -=-Aaaand... it's dicourteous or
          unhelpful to say "I think you're taking the wrong approach"?-=-

          Absolutely has the potential to be discourteous and unhelpful,
          especially when others have already provided help and when the person
          doesn't say "I think." It happens too often.

          Let's help people find things, instead of discouraging the search!

          =Err... you just made a leap from 19th-century children tying things
          into
          their handkerchiefs to people at some unspecified point pre-17th
          century =

          "Err.... aaaand...." Those things are discourtous.

          It's not "a leap" to say "the thing existed then and still exists,"
          or "the thing was in use then and still in use until recently.
          (Handkerchiefs; ink wells; butter churns; hammers.)

          Using handkerchiefs for such purposes was traditional in the SW U.S.
          until into the mid 20th century. There's no reason for it to have
          been some idea. As handkerchiefs and kerchiefs and muckinders are
          documented, and are are known to have been tied on sometimes (from
          reference and illustration and tradition), then it's highly unlikely
          that the idea of tying something up in one was some novel 19th
          century technological advance.

          Some kinds of traditions change only very, very slowly:
          christenings, weddings, funerals, for example.
          There is a tradition involving a handkerchief being used for the
          christening (chrism) being saved and buried with the baby if the baby
          died very early (kid of like a proof of Baptism), or worn by the
          bride (as a purse, at least some of the time; the first example I
          found was definitely that), and buried with the woman when she died.
          I don't know what they did with the cloths from the boys' baptisms.

          Gathering up information always seems more fun and useful to me than
          rejecting information. Some of the best discoveries come from
          seemingly disparate connections, not from intentional research.
          Accidental finds are always the most exciting stories in science,
          history, biology, archeology...

          AElflaed of Duckford
          Outlands



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        • NINacide@aol.com
          Viking Clothing, Thor Ewing Men s Viking Purse, with button. ...A form of purse with a horseshoe-shaped bronze frame is known from several graves at Birka,
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 1, 2007
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            Viking Clothing, Thor Ewing

            Men's Viking Purse, with button.

            "...A form of purse with a horseshoe-shaped bronze frame is known from
            several graves at Birka, and was worn under the left shoulder, where it would
            have been concealed by the cloak. At Birka, purses of both types were often
            closed with a bronze button."

            I know it's an entirely different kind of bag, but if you want a pouch and
            documented period, then this is the best I can give to you.

            M.K.



            ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
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          • squire009
            If you look in Dover s The Complete Woodcuts of Albrecht Durer, I m sure you will find bags with drawstrings. I know that he shows purses with side-pockets
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 2, 2007
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              If you look in Dover's The Complete Woodcuts of Albrecht Durer, I'm
              sure you will find bags with drawstrings. I know that he shows purses
              with side-pockets that are closed with cords rather than buckles.

              Alcyoneus
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