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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Another Persona Question

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  • Katherine Throckmorton
    ... She would have anglicized both her given name and her surname. This could happen in one of two ways-either the name would be spelled and pronounced in the
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 1, 2007
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      On 8/31/07, Sarah <thswildcats@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Would she have kept her French name
      > >and surname or would she have kept her first name French and taken an
      > >English surname or would she have anglicized both names?
      >





      She would have anglicized both her given name and her surname. This could
      happen in one of two ways-either the name would be spelled and pronounced in
      the as though it were English, or if there was a obvious English equivalent
      to the name then that element would likely have been translated into
      English. It really depends on the name.
      As a more general theoretical note, the notion that we have that "my name"
      has only one proper spelling and one proper pronunciation is modern. In the
      SCA period, people used a English form of their name when speaking and
      writing English, a French form of their name when speaking or writing French
      and a Latin form of their name when speaking or writing Latin.
      Of course, how you choose to play this in the SCA is another matter, and
      depends partially on how you view your persona. If you think of yourself as
      a Frenchwoman living in England, then you would use a English form of your
      name. If you think of yourself as a Frenchwoman who moved to England and
      now finds herself living in one of the Laurel Kingdoms, then either a fully
      French or English name would be equally correct.

      >I assume to fit in as much as possible she would have worn a typical Tudor
      style
      >English gown but I'm interested in French clothing of the time period
      >as well but all of my searches for that time period seem to leave me
      >at either England or Spain.

      As a broad, sweeping generalization, French fashion was "in" at the English
      court. She would likely have had some English gowns, but would very likely
      have continued to wear her French clothing as well.

      >All the history books that I have read generalize things to
      >the point that good documentation or further research is almost
      >impossible so could anyone point me to more specific research on any
      >aspect of that time period?

      What particular time period are you interested it? Fashion changes a great
      deal in the 16th century, as did everything else. As you know, there are
      about a bazillion books written about the English court during this period.
      Many of these are simply recitations of the scandals, but if you look many
      will have good details about life at court.
      For the clothing specifically, I would suggest:
      http://www.elizabethancostume.net/
      which is the best web based resources around.

      hope this helps,
      Katherine
    • Sandra Dodd
      This might be too adventurous and risky (though you ll be safe in your desk chair), but... A few times I ve had some luck with using google and searching on a
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 1, 2007
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        This might be too adventurous and risky (though you'll be safe in
        your desk chair), but...

        A few times I've had some luck with using google and searching on a
        foreign domain. Maybe you could translate a phrase with the
        language translator and then go to languages, choose France or French
        (so you get the Canadian stuff too) and then images, and see what
        comes up that way.

        There is probably lots of French research just not translated into
        English.

        I've usually just been looking for the images and not accompanying
        text, and it's never been about costume, but I've had some
        interesting finds that way.

        AElflaed of Duckford
        Outlands
      • Cécile de Brétigny
        All the history books that I have read generalize things to ... Sorry I am chiming in rather late on this subject. I am also researching French costume in the
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 5, 2007
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          All the history books that I have read generalize things to
          > the point that good documentation or further research is almost
          > impossible so could anyone point me to more specific research on any
          > aspect of that time period? Thanks, Sarah
          >


          Sorry I am chiming in rather late on this subject. I am also
          researching French costume in the 16th century.

          The painters Jean and Francois Clouet were popular French court
          painters (like Hans Holbein in the Tudor court). If you do a google
          image search on "Clouet" you should find a lot. I started finding more
          images by searching on royal mistresses like Anne de Pisseleu
          d'Heilly, Francoise de Foix and Diane de Poitiers. Francois I prefered
          Italian tastes to Spanish ones, and it influenced how the court ladies
          dressed. There is an interesting article on this. "Living Dolls:
          François I Dresses His Women".

          http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/renaissance_quarterly/v060/60.1croizat.html

          French costume in Tudor England is rather touch and go--rather like
          the wives of Henry VIII. Spanish inspriration was common during
          Katherine of Aragon's popularity. Anne Boleyn's rise popularized
          French styles. With Jane Seymore, the styles shifted away from French
          styles (too scandalous). After Jane's death, French styles started to
          come back into vogue. With Edward VI and later Mary I, there was a lot
          of Spanish influence on women's fashion.

          Cecile de Bretigny
          Atenveldt
          ladycecilia@...
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