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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Crochet

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  • Ann Catelli
    ... Early nineteenth century for the earliest pattern, like 1830??iirc?, probably developed from the eighteenth century tambour embroidery craze. Sorry. Ann in
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 10, 2007
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      --- ecreech81 <ecreech81@...> wrote:

      > I was carving a new needle out today and was
      > wondering when crochet came about......
      > ~Elisha

      Early nineteenth century for the earliest pattern,
      like 1830??iirc?, probably developed from the
      eighteenth century tambour embroidery craze.

      Sorry.

      Ann in CT



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    • Onaree Berard
      ... Early Victorian or perhaps just before. Onaree -- Proud List Mom of Irish_Crochet_Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 10, 2007
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        On 6/10/07, ecreech81 <ecreech81@...> wrote:
        > I was carving a new needle out today and was wondering when crochet
        > came about...........Hmmmmmmmm....
        > ~Elisha
        >
        Early Victorian or perhaps just before.

        Onaree


        --
        Proud List Mom of Irish_Crochet_Lovers
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/
      • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
        ... 11th c in Egypt, and 14th c in Europe. Old but not exactly ancient. http://www.florilegium.org/files/TEXTILES/knitting-msg.html Ranvaig
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 10, 2007
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          >
          >
          >Knitting, on the other hand, is quite ancient.

          11th c in Egypt, and 14th c in Europe. Old but not exactly ancient.

          http://www.florilegium.org/files/TEXTILES/knitting-msg.html

          Ranvaig
        • tasha_medvedeva
          ... Compared to crochet, it is. Tasha who meant ancient in terms of really mucking old as opposed to ancint Greece or Egypt .
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 10, 2007
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, ranvaig@... wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > >Knitting, on the other hand, is quite ancient.
            >
            > 11th c in Egypt, and 14th c in Europe. Old but not exactly ancient.
            >
            > http://www.florilegium.org/files/TEXTILES/knitting-msg.html
            >
            > Ranvaig
            >

            Compared to crochet, it is.

            Tasha
            who meant "ancient" in terms of "really mucking old" as opposed to
            "ancint Greece or Egypt".
          • Cynthia J Ley
            If you re interested, you might also check out nalbinding and sprang as other forms of woven needleworks. Arlys On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 03:44:07 -0000
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 11, 2007
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              If you're interested, you might also check out nalbinding and sprang as
              other forms of woven needleworks.

              Arlys

              On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 03:44:07 -0000 "tasha_medvedeva"
              <tasha_medvedeva@...> writes:
              > --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "ecreech81" <ecreech81@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > I was carving a new needle out today and was wondering when
              > crochet
              > > came about...........Hmmmmmmmm....
              > > ~Elisha
              > >
              >
              > 19th century, to the best of my knowledge. 18th at the earliest;
              > I've
              > seen no evidence that it was done in our period.
              >
              > Knitting, on the other hand, is quite ancient.
              >
              > Tasha
              >
            • Chris Laning
              ... To the best of our knowledge, needle-made chain stitch came first; there are Islamic examples from very early centuries AD:
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 11, 2007
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                Cynthia wrote:
                >Which came first--tambour work or crochet? And
                >how do they relate to needle made embroidery
                >chain stitch?

                To the best of our knowledge, needle-made chain stitch came first; there are Islamic examples from very early centuries AD:
                http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/historical_chain.html

                Tambour seems to have been a 17th-century invention, though I'm not clear on its history, and crochet -- according to the current consensus -- seems to have originated as a sort of "tambour without a background" -- when someone figured out that the chain stitches, suitably arranged, could hold together on their own without cloth.

                The article Sorcha quotes is here:
                http://claning.home.igc.org/articles/crochet.html

                Hope this is helpful! Santina Levey's _Lace: A History_ probably has the best treatment of early crochet I've seen, with Lis Paludan's crochet book a close runner-up. There just isn't a whole lot of information on when and where crochet came from, alas! :(

                (Dame) Christian de Holacombe



                ____________________________________________________________
                0 Chris Laning
                | <claning@...>
                + Davis, California
                http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
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              • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
                ... To this Viking they both seem pretty modern , compared to netting, for instance. *smile* Ranvaig
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 12, 2007
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                  >--- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, ranvaig@... wrote:
                  >>
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >Knitting, on the other hand, is quite ancient.
                  >>
                  >> 11th c in Egypt, and 14th c in Europe. Old but not exactly ancient.
                  >>
                  >> http://www.florilegium.org/files/TEXTILES/knitting-msg.html
                  >>
                  >> Ranvaig
                  >>
                  >
                  >Compared to crochet, it is.
                  >
                  >Tasha
                  >who meant "ancient" in terms of "really mucking old" as opposed to
                  >"ancint Greece or Egypt".

                  To this Viking they both seem pretty "modern", compared to netting, for instance. *smile*

                  Ranvaig
                • ecreech81
                  MODERATOR S NOTE: (1) As a courtesy to our many members who receive this list in digest form, please do not top post. You left three (3) messages appended
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 14, 2007
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                    MODERATOR'S NOTE: (1) As a courtesy to our many members who receive this list in digest form, please do not top post. You left three (3) messages appended below your reply. (2) Please sign all your posts, so we can better get to know each other. Thank you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator.

                    [Message ordere rearranged and edited below.]

                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, ranvaig@... wrote:

                    > To this Viking they both seem pretty "modern", compared to
                    netting, for instance. *smile*
                    >
                    > Ranvaig

                    netting?
                  • Sandra Dodd
                    -=-netting?-=- http://sandradodd.com/guestfest/netting Just last month there was a workshop here on netting, by Duchess Leah Kasmira, who provided some links
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 14, 2007
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                      -=-netting?-=-

                      http://sandradodd.com/guestfest/netting

                      Just last month there was a workshop here on netting, by Duchess Leah
                      Kasmira, who provided some links and things for me to scan.

                      The handout (which she forgot to bring that night but sent later) was
                      actually be Magistra Nicolaa de Bracton
                      and it's there too.

                      AElflaed of Duckford
                      Outlands




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