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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Middle Eastern Question

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  • Lilinah
    ... As did many Seljuks after they conquered much of Persia :-) Persian culture was THE culture to emulate - even the Abbasid Arabs copied many aspects of
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 5 11:34 AM
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      Sine wrote:
      >From the email this morning my gentleman is Seljuk. So....
      >he is Turkish eh? hmmm.....he has a determination to
      >follow Persian inspirations.

      As did many Seljuks after they conquered much of Persia :-) Persian
      culture was THE culture to emulate - even the 'Abbasid Arabs copied
      many aspects of Persian culture.

      >So, having the strong Turkish influence there might
      >be an opportunity for some minor changes...more
      >elaborate fabrics etc.?

      Unfortunately, the Mongols followed on the heels of the Seljuks and
      were quite destructive, so there's a very limited amount of clothing
      left. There are some garments in modern Turkey, in the Anatolian city
      of Konya, which was the capital city of the Seljuks of Rum in the
      12th& 13th centuries. They're in a museum, the Mevlana Museum,
      dedicated to the famous poet Rumi (so-called because he lived in Rum,
      i.e., a region that had formerly belonged to the "Romans", what the
      Byzantines called themselves). Mevlana Celaleddin (or Jalaluddin)
      Rumi was born in Balkh, a city in medieval Persia, now in
      Afghanistan. His family fled westward to escape the Mongols. He was a
      Sufi, the Mevlevi order, sometimes called "whirling dervishes".

      There are some not-terribly good photos from the museum on-line.
      [http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1/turkey2/cd10/konya/mevlana_tekke/MUSEUM/textiles/clothing/%5d
      the graphics are freakin' huge (mostly around 1mg!) but should be helpful.

      As for fabric to use to look royal in, some 2-color damask with small
      patterns might be good. Colors to go for are rich red, golden yellow,
      white, and various shades of indigo blue.

      Another typical early Persian motif is the roundel featuring either a
      mounted warrior (i.e., on horseback) or a "big cat" attacking an
      herbivore (deer, camel, bull, other) and often with a "pearl" border
      (i.e., having a circumference of small solid circles). From what i
      can tell, roundels were still featured on lampas weave fabric during
      the Seljuk period.

      These sorts of patterns are admittedly hard to find in modern fabric
      - but you never know, you might find some. A few years ago i actually
      found some white cellulose rayon with indigo printed cintamani (a
      typical royal Ottoman pattern). The scale was wrong (it was small and
      Ottomans liked BIG patterns) but i HAD to get some. It's the only
      time in 8 years i've seen modern commercial cintamani.

      --
      Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
      the persona formerly known as Anahita
    • Lilinah
      ... Here are a couple Seljuk period fabric fragments i found some time ago at the website of the Cleveland Museum of Art: -- Lampas weave fabric with animals
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 5 12:31 PM
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        I wrote:
        >As for fabric to use to look royal in, some 2-color damask with
        >small patterns might be good. Colors to go for are rich red, golden
        >yellow, white, and various shades of indigo blue.
        >
        >Another typical early Persian motif is the roundel featuring either
        >a mounted warrior (i.e., on horseback) or a "big cat" attacking an
        >herbivore (deer, camel, bull, other) and often with a "pearl" border
        >(i.e., having a circumference of small solid circles). From what i
        >can tell, roundels were still featured on lampas weave fabric during
        >the Seljuk period.

        Here are a couple Seljuk period fabric fragments i found some time
        ago at the website of the Cleveland Museum of Art:
        -- Lampas weave fabric with animals in roundels
        [http://www.clevelandart.org/Explore/departmentWork.asp?deptgroup=3&recNo=299]
        -- Lampas weave fabric of simurghs in medium indigo blue silk and metallic gold
        [http://www.clevelandart.org/Explore/work.asp?searchText=1945%2E14&recNo=0&tab=2&display=]

        --
        Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
        the persona formerly known as Anahita
      • Lilinah
        Whew! I finally found the thumbnail pages for those huge Mevlana Tekke files.
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 5 6:34 PM
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          Whew! I finally found the "thumbnail" pages for those huge Mevlana Tekke files.
          http://rubens.anu.edu.au/turkey/konya/mevlana_tekke/museum/textiles/clothing/index.php?page=1
          and
          http://rubens.anu.edu.au/turkey/konya/mevlana_tekke/museum/textiles/clothing/index.php?page=2

          So, if you've been holding back, now you can preview before clicking...
          --
          Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
          the persona formerly known as Anahita
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