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Re: Recipes for Authentic Candies/treats

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  • wodeford
    ... http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/recipe_toc.html I ve had His Grace s khushkananaj, it s lovely. Jehanne de Wodeford West
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 1, 2007
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      --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "rachelaleclair"
      <rachelaleclair@...> wrote:
      >
      > My shire is having a demonstration, and we were discussing making
      > treats to pass out at the event. Does anyone have any good period
      > recipees/ideas that have worked well for you?

      http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/recipe_toc.html
      I've had His Grace's khushkananaj, it's lovely.

      Jehanne de Wodeford
      West
    • Cynthia J Ley
      You might also try hedgehogs (a medieval meatball). The cooks in my shire do these all the time at demos, and they are extremely popular. Arlys On Thu, 31 May
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 1, 2007
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        You might also try hedgehogs (a medieval meatball). The cooks in my shire
        do these all the time at demos, and they are extremely popular.

        Arlys

        On Thu, 31 May 2007 12:38:30 -0400 "Sarah Michele Ford"
        <saramichelef@...> writes:
        > On 5/31/07, rachelaleclair <rachelaleclair@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > My shire is having a demonstration, and we were discussing making
        > > treats to pass out at the event. Does anyone have any good period
        > > recipees/ideas that have worked well for you?
        >
        >
        > Period gingerbread is really, really easy (the only "period cooking"
        > I've
        > ever done, actually). There's a pretty long thread about it in
        > Stephan's
        > Florilegium -
        > http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-SWEETS/gingerbread-msg.html -
        > probably
        > a good starting spot. The only warning I'd give is that it can be
        > kinda
        > stickymessy.
        >
        > Alianor de R.
        >
        > --
        > *****************************
        > saramichelef@...
        > http://snowplow.org/sarah/pers/
        > http://alphasarah.livejournal.com
        > http://www.flickr.com/people/sarahmichelef
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • bronwynmgn@aol.com
        In a message dated 6/2/2007 7:10:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 2, 2007
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          In a message dated 6/2/2007 7:10:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com writes:

          <<You might also try hedgehogs (a medieval meatball). The cooks in my shire
          do these all the time at demos, and they are extremely popular. >>

          Actually, if you follow the hedgehog recipe properly, it's not a meatball at
          all. It's a stuffed pig's stomach. People make meatballs out of the
          stuffing and call them hedgehogs, but the period recipe does not support that
          practice.

          Brangwayna Morgan




          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
        • Janis James
          Greetings All, I need advice please. I have costumed Middle Eastern for ladies for a number of years, but have never done much Middle Eastern sewing for men. I
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 3, 2007
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            Greetings All,
            I need advice please. I have costumed Middle Eastern
            for ladies for a number of years, but have never done
            much Middle Eastern sewing for men.
            I am set and good with the actual clothing. It's the
            headwear that I'm having trouble with right now.
            The gentleman I am sewing for doesn't care for
            turbans and I have always understood that the Kafeya
            with cording band seen today is a rather modern type
            of headwear. The climate here in summer is quite hot
            and he is not comfortable with the turban.
            I am looking around about 1000 ce, and any help
            or ideas would really be appreciated.
            Cheers, Sine

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          • Lilinah
            ... SCAdians (and other non-Muslims) use the term turban far far far too loosely. There is a difference between a turban and a head wrap, but i hear people
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 4, 2007
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              Sine wrote:
              > The gentleman I am sewing for doesn't care for
              >turbans

              SCAdians (and other non-Muslims) use the term "turban" far far far
              too loosely. There is a difference between a turban and a head wrap,
              but i hear people over and over call a head wrap a turban.

              A *genuine* turban is a very specific marker of high political or
              religious status "in period". A turban was for royalty, important
              religious figures, etc., and its use is often proscribed by law - the
              method of wrapping denoted the individual's status, was well as the
              type of hat over which the turban was wrapped. So turbans are
              generally inappropriate for SCAdians

              Head wraps, on the other hand, are often quite appropriate for
              SCAdians. Head wraps are a great deal simpler than turbans and are
              relatively common.

              Head wraps are still commonly seen throughout Dar al-Islam. Turbans
              are quite rare. I'm not trying to sell you (or the gentleman) on one,
              just to inform.

              (just as the word "veil" is used for an item of clothing for Muslim
              women and non-Muslim women in the Muslim world in such a way as to be
              almost meaningless)

              >and I have always understood that the Kafeya
              >with cording band seen today is a rather modern type
              >of headwear.

              Acutally, there is evidence for a *pure white* head cloth and a
              *simple* filet (not those big thick black and gold agals i see) at
              least in al-Andalus. I have some pictures on my website... if the
              gentleman is a Maghribi or Andalusi.

              >The climate here in summer is quite hot
              >and he is not comfortable with the turban.

              And i bet he isn't a shah, a sultan, a caliph, or an imam who has
              gone on the hajj... so a turban is likely to be inappropriate,
              although a common and simple head wrap might be appropriate.

              > I am looking around about 1000 ce, and any help
              >or ideas would really be appreciated.

              In fact, what just about anyone - adult, child, male, female - just
              about anyplace could wear is a cap. The style varies from time to
              time and place to place.

              So, where is this gentleman from? I can better suggest a style when i
              know his locale.

              --
              Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
              the persona formerly known as Anahita

              Ride your camel to Dar Anahita
              http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah
              SCA-period Near and Middle Eastern Costuming,
              including Persian, Ottoman, Maghribi, and Andalusian,
              Medieval Muslim Egyptian knitting, and
              complete menus and period recipes from seven SCA feasts
              (from German to Persian), 23 German mushroom recipes,
              an analysis of the spices used in two different 13th C. Arabic
              language cookbooks, and more Medieval food-related stuff
            • Janis James
              Urtatim (that s err-tah-TEEM) wrote......... ... .........well, OK.....yes - there is indeed a difference between a turban and a headwrap. As the gentleman I
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 4, 2007
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                Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) wrote.........
                >SCAdians (and other non-Muslims) use the term "turban" far far far
                >too loosely. There is a difference between a turban and a head wrap,
                >but i hear people over and over call a head wrap a turban....snips......

                .........well, OK.....yes - there is indeed a difference between
                a turban and a headwrap. As the gentleman I am costuming
                for will be Royal I guess it really was appropriate! Our equivalent
                to the Shah, Sultan, Caliph etc., However, as I said he is just not
                comfortable in a Turban. He really doesn't much care for
                a headwrap either - even if that would seem to be more
                acceptable. It seems he gets extremely warm about
                the head and layers of cloth make him very, very uncomfortable.

                ......>Acutally, there is evidence for a *pure white* head cloth and a
                >*simple* filet (not those big thick black and gold agals i see) at
                >least in al-Andalus. I have some pictures on my website... if the
                >gentleman is a Maghribi or Andalusi.

                Now this would be of more interest to him. Something simple
                and cooler to the head........I understand a one strand cord (filet),
                is there a colour restriction for that? He does agree with me that
                it feels more mediaeval to have something on the head - he just
                doesn't want to be miserable in it.

                Apparently he is about 1000 C.E. Persian. You also mentioned a
                cap? Rather like the short Fez, embroidered type?
                Thank you for your time, Sine

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              • Lilinah
                ... Uh, mmm, alas, that white head cloth is not appropriate for a Persian. I think a cap of some sort is going to be more appropriate for the rest of his
                Message 7 of 21 , Jun 4, 2007
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                  Sine wrote:
                  >Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) wrote.........
                  >......>Actually, there is evidence for a *pure white* head cloth and a
                  > >*simple* filet (not those big thick black and gold agals i see) at
                  >>least in al-Andalus. I have some pictures on my website... if the
                  >>gentleman is a Maghribi or Andalusi.
                  >
                  >Now this would be of more interest to him. Something simple
                  >and cooler to the head........I understand a one strand cord (filet),
                  >is there a colour restriction for that? He does agree with me that
                  >it feels more mediaeval to have something on the head - he just
                  >doesn't want to be miserable in it.
                  >
                  >Apparently he is about 1000 C.E. Persian. You also mentioned a
                  >cap? Rather like the short Fez, embroidered type?
                  >Thank you for your time,

                  Uh, mmm, alas, that white head cloth is not appropriate for a
                  Persian. I think a cap of some sort is going to be more appropriate
                  for the rest of his clothing.

                  Is he Sogdian or Seljuk?

                  --
                  Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                  the persona formerly known as Anahita
                • Janis James
                  ... I understand him to be Seljuk........now I m not actually positive about that, just seem to remember that in conversation, can t contact him until tomorrow
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jun 4, 2007
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                    .........Urtatim...wrote
                    >Uh, mmm, alas, that white head cloth is not appropriate for a
                    >Persian. I think a cap of some sort is going to be more appropriate
                    >for the rest of his clothing.
                    >
                    >Is he Sogdian or Seljuk?
                    >
                    I understand him to be Seljuk........now I'm not actually positive
                    about that, just seem to remember that in conversation, can't
                    contact him until tomorrow to clarify.
                    Cheers, Sine

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                  • j_southwell2002
                    MODERATOR NOTE (please sign all posts to the list and please do not top post to this list, thank you) Despina moderator You might look at Burnoose. In my
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jun 4, 2007
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                      MODERATOR NOTE (please sign all posts to the list and please do not top post to this list, thank you) Despina moderator

                      You might look at Burnoose. In my research for a play they are a
                      popular alternative to the turban. Though I dont know if they go so
                      far back to 1000 ce.
                    • Lilinah
                      ... OK, if he s Seljuk, he s Turkish. They conquered a large part of Persia, but they are Turkish linguistically, ethnically, and culturally. In art i see that
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jun 5, 2007
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                        Sine wrote:
                        >I understand him to be Seljuk........now I'm not actually positive
                        >about that, just seem to remember that in conversation, can't
                        >contact him until tomorrow to clarify.

                        OK, if he's Seljuk, he's Turkish. They conquered a large part of
                        Persia, but they are Turkish linguistically, ethnically, and
                        culturally.

                        In art i see that he would have adapted to wear a turban as royalty,
                        but if he's dead set against it, a fur lined had is the next best
                        thing (yeah, right, i'm sure he'll love that idea :-) You can fake it
                        by making a cap and have the fur on the outside...

                        One hat (but it's for mortals less that the "King") is a basic cap
                        with a rectangular band around the head and the top made of triangles
                        - six would be best, although i've seen simplified versions with only
                        four, but c'mon, if he's royalty he deserves the best :-) Make the
                        parts of the hat that show of the richest jacquard silk fabric you
                        can fine - since it won't use a lot. Then that simple band around the
                        head should be of a nice rich dark brown fur - you can make it on the
                        outside only so it won't be so hot, with a simple comfy fabric on the
                        inside (cotton or linen).

                        One feature of royal caps, at least in the Minai style Seljuk art (i
                        have a real soft spot for Minai style art) is a sort of triangle
                        shape in the center front that sticks up and is gold, at least in
                        paintings, and appears to be backed or edged with fur. In reality it
                        might have been gold metal, but if you can find gilded leather that
                        might be less uncomfortable and quicker to make.

                        This web page has some nice Minai style manuscript illuminations,
                        although they're a bit fuzzy.
                        http://www.geocities.com/egfroth1/Seljuqs.htm

                        The large painting about 2/5 of the way down the page with the caption:
                        "A Seljuq court, from Kitab al Diryaq (the Book of Antidotes) by
                        Pseudo-Gallen, probably from Iraq, mid 13th century. National
                        Bibliothek, Vienna." (i figure that should say Pseudo-Galen)
                        shows the ruler in very large size almost centered. He's wearing that
                        hat i mentioned.

                        Granted, this is about 200 years later than you're looking for, but
                        clothing for rulers was often more conservative than that for
                        ordinary folks, so it may be close to what he could use.

                        Those pointed white hats with the brims do not appear to be for
                        royalty, and in period it was always important to look the part,
                        whatever one's part was. Personal comfort of royalty when out in
                        public didn't matter as much as looking impressive, although in
                        private i'm sure royalty could be a bit more informal.

                        In some versions of the Maqamat of al-Hariri produced in Seljuk
                        controlled Syria in a Seljuk influenced style, shows some men with
                        head wraps around caps - one in particular looks like a qalansuwa - a
                        somewhat tall somewhat pointy hat, generally associated with the
                        ruling class.

                        In a copy of Kalila wa-Dimna dated to 1220 and produced in Seljuk
                        controlled Baghdad all the human men appear to be wearing either
                        turbans or head wraps :-( Many of the illustrations from this book,
                        Ms. arabe 3465,

                        Both books are on-line at the site of the Biblioteque Nationale de France
                        http://expositions.bnf.fr/livrarab/
                        I seem to recall that the section in English has a lot fewer pieces
                        of art than the section in French.

                        Another Seljuk book, the story of Warka wa-Gulshah, the tale of two
                        lovers (his name is variously Romanized into Warqa and Varka; as for
                        her name, "Gul" means "rose"), is also from the early 13th century. I
                        can only assume these early 13th C. works were all pre-Mongol
                        invasion. Again, nearly all the men are shown wearing turbans or head
                        wraps. Most of the illustrations are on-line, scanned from a book
                        that reproduced them mostly in black-and-white (alas).
                        http://www.geocities.com/qilich/varga/

                        There are some color pictures from it at:
                        http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/early.html

                        And there are some illustrations from the 1300s... some before the
                        Mongol invasion and some after here:
                        www.ehttp://e.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/pers-II.html
                        but this is definitely getting rather late for your gentleman's persona.

                        I hope some of this is useful.
                        --
                        Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                        the persona formerly known as Anahita
                      • Lilinah
                        ... Also called selHam in Morocco (i use the capital H to indicate a strong H sound). I ve found evidence for them in North Africa going back to Roman times,
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jun 5, 2007
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                          Unsigned wrote:
                          >You might look at Burnoose. In my research for a play they are a
                          >popular alternative to the turban. Though I dont know if they go so
                          >far back to 1000 ce.

                          Also called selHam in Morocco (i use the capital H to indicate a
                          strong H sound). I've found evidence for them in North Africa going
                          back to Roman times, but i haven't read about or seen them outside
                          North Africa.

                          And in art from Central Asia - original home of the Seljuks, this
                          gentleman's culture - i've seen no suggestion that a hooded cloak was
                          part of the clothing system. Nor have i seen any in any Persian
                          culture from Greco-Roman times to the 17th century. What i see over
                          and over are front-opening "coats".

                          If you have an historical source for Central Asian hooded cloaks,
                          please share, because i've got one that would be comfy to wear for
                          those times i'm wearing Persian rather than North African clothing at
                          events.

                          --
                          Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                          the persona formerly known as Anahita
                        • Per Braz
                          Greetings ! We have made some seldjuk/turkish/arabic garbs from end of XIIth century here http://www.1186-583.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=21 You can see some
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jun 5, 2007
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                            Greetings !
                            We have made some seldjuk/turkish/arabic garbs from end of XIIth century here
                            http://www.1186-583.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=21
                            You can see some sharbush style hats here :
                            http://www.1186-583.org/article.php3?id_article=101
                            http://www.1186-583.org/article.php3?id_article=145
                            (sorry it is just in French but pictures are useful)
                            An excellent article about it is here :
                            http://www.havenonline.com/moas/northstar/vol2no1/An%20Islamic%20Military%20Cap%20
                            (Tarik).htm
                            Atakan al Vefa is an a Seldjuk character, Zahr is Turkish but with some
                            Arabic/Kurdish/Turkmen influences.
                            Hope it can help.
                            Yann aka Per Braz aka Abu Hamir

                            --
                            Per Braz - perbraz@...
                            webmestre http://www.1186-583.org
                          • Janis James
                            Terrific help Urtatim, thanks very much. From the email this morning my gentleman is Seljuk. So.... he is Turkish eh? hmmm.....he has a determination to
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jun 5, 2007
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                              Terrific help Urtatim, thanks very much.
                              From the email this morning my gentleman is Seljuk. So....
                              he is Turkish eh? hmmm.....he has a determination to
                              follow Persian inspirations.
                              So, having the strong Turkish influence there might
                              be an opportunity for some minor changes.......more
                              elaborate fabrics etc.?
                              Thanks again for all your help. Sine

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                            • Lilinah
                              Greetings: Cool! I ve been admiring the 1186-583 website for quite a while. There s some excellent stuff on it. ... Yes!!! These are really useful pages on the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                Greetings:

                                Cool! I've been admiring the 1186-583 website for quite a while.
                                There's some excellent stuff on it.

                                >We have made some seldjuk/turkish/arabic garbs from end of XIIth century here
                                >http://www.1186-583.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=21
                                >You can see some sharbush style hats here :
                                >http://www.1186-583.org/article.php3?id_article=101
                                >http://www.1186-583.org/article.php3?id_article=145

                                Yes!!! These are really useful pages on the hat i mentioned. I've
                                saved them and bookmarked them, but forgot about it when i made my
                                recommendations :-(

                                >(sorry it is just in French but pictures are useful)

                                I can help translate...

                                >An excellent article about it is here :
                                >http://www.havenonline.com/moas/northstar/vol2no1/An%20Islamic%20Military%20Cap%20(Tarik).htm

                                Alas, the illustrations are missing (and from most of the articles on
                                this site)... did you (or someone else), by chance, save them?

                                --
                                Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                                the persona formerly known as Anahita
                              • Per Braz
                                ... Thanks a lot. I plan to upgrade the website to a new CMS engine before the end of the year, with the possibility to have foreign languages, including
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                  Le mardi 5 juin 2007, Lilinah a écrit :
                                  > Cool! I've been admiring the 1186-583 website for quite a while.
                                  > There's some excellent stuff on it.
                                  Thanks a lot. I plan to upgrade the website to a new CMS engine before the end
                                  of the year, with the possibility to have foreign languages, including
                                  English of course. And we haven't pusblished a lot recently as we are working
                                  hard on a book project to be released for next year. We should begin again to
                                  put stuff during Summer I think, we have quite some new things to show and a
                                  lot of ideas :)

                                  > >(sorry it is just in French but pictures are useful)
                                  > I can help translate...
                                  So do I of course :)

                                  > Alas, the illustrations are missing (and from most of the articles on
                                  > this site)... did you (or someone else), by chance, save them?
                                  I don't think
                                  I will ask on our internal forum, by chance.
                                  All the best
                                  Yann aka Per Braz

                                  --
                                  Per Braz - perbraz@...
                                  webmestre http://www.1186-583.org
                                • Lilinah
                                  ... As did many Seljuks after they conquered much of Persia :-) Persian culture was THE culture to emulate - even the Abbasid Arabs copied many aspects of
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                    Sine wrote:
                                    >From the email this morning my gentleman is Seljuk. So....
                                    >he is Turkish eh? hmmm.....he has a determination to
                                    >follow Persian inspirations.

                                    As did many Seljuks after they conquered much of Persia :-) Persian
                                    culture was THE culture to emulate - even the 'Abbasid Arabs copied
                                    many aspects of Persian culture.

                                    >So, having the strong Turkish influence there might
                                    >be an opportunity for some minor changes...more
                                    >elaborate fabrics etc.?

                                    Unfortunately, the Mongols followed on the heels of the Seljuks and
                                    were quite destructive, so there's a very limited amount of clothing
                                    left. There are some garments in modern Turkey, in the Anatolian city
                                    of Konya, which was the capital city of the Seljuks of Rum in the
                                    12th& 13th centuries. They're in a museum, the Mevlana Museum,
                                    dedicated to the famous poet Rumi (so-called because he lived in Rum,
                                    i.e., a region that had formerly belonged to the "Romans", what the
                                    Byzantines called themselves). Mevlana Celaleddin (or Jalaluddin)
                                    Rumi was born in Balkh, a city in medieval Persia, now in
                                    Afghanistan. His family fled westward to escape the Mongols. He was a
                                    Sufi, the Mevlevi order, sometimes called "whirling dervishes".

                                    There are some not-terribly good photos from the museum on-line.
                                    [http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid1/turkey2/cd10/konya/mevlana_tekke/MUSEUM/textiles/clothing/%5d
                                    the graphics are freakin' huge (mostly around 1mg!) but should be helpful.

                                    As for fabric to use to look royal in, some 2-color damask with small
                                    patterns might be good. Colors to go for are rich red, golden yellow,
                                    white, and various shades of indigo blue.

                                    Another typical early Persian motif is the roundel featuring either a
                                    mounted warrior (i.e., on horseback) or a "big cat" attacking an
                                    herbivore (deer, camel, bull, other) and often with a "pearl" border
                                    (i.e., having a circumference of small solid circles). From what i
                                    can tell, roundels were still featured on lampas weave fabric during
                                    the Seljuk period.

                                    These sorts of patterns are admittedly hard to find in modern fabric
                                    - but you never know, you might find some. A few years ago i actually
                                    found some white cellulose rayon with indigo printed cintamani (a
                                    typical royal Ottoman pattern). The scale was wrong (it was small and
                                    Ottomans liked BIG patterns) but i HAD to get some. It's the only
                                    time in 8 years i've seen modern commercial cintamani.

                                    --
                                    Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                                    the persona formerly known as Anahita
                                  • Lilinah
                                    ... Here are a couple Seljuk period fabric fragments i found some time ago at the website of the Cleveland Museum of Art: -- Lampas weave fabric with animals
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                      I wrote:
                                      >As for fabric to use to look royal in, some 2-color damask with
                                      >small patterns might be good. Colors to go for are rich red, golden
                                      >yellow, white, and various shades of indigo blue.
                                      >
                                      >Another typical early Persian motif is the roundel featuring either
                                      >a mounted warrior (i.e., on horseback) or a "big cat" attacking an
                                      >herbivore (deer, camel, bull, other) and often with a "pearl" border
                                      >(i.e., having a circumference of small solid circles). From what i
                                      >can tell, roundels were still featured on lampas weave fabric during
                                      >the Seljuk period.

                                      Here are a couple Seljuk period fabric fragments i found some time
                                      ago at the website of the Cleveland Museum of Art:
                                      -- Lampas weave fabric with animals in roundels
                                      [http://www.clevelandart.org/Explore/departmentWork.asp?deptgroup=3&recNo=299]
                                      -- Lampas weave fabric of simurghs in medium indigo blue silk and metallic gold
                                      [http://www.clevelandart.org/Explore/work.asp?searchText=1945%2E14&recNo=0&tab=2&display=]

                                      --
                                      Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                                      the persona formerly known as Anahita
                                    • Lilinah
                                      Whew! I finally found the thumbnail pages for those huge Mevlana Tekke files.
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                        Whew! I finally found the "thumbnail" pages for those huge Mevlana Tekke files.
                                        http://rubens.anu.edu.au/turkey/konya/mevlana_tekke/museum/textiles/clothing/index.php?page=1
                                        and
                                        http://rubens.anu.edu.au/turkey/konya/mevlana_tekke/museum/textiles/clothing/index.php?page=2

                                        So, if you've been holding back, now you can preview before clicking...
                                        --
                                        Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
                                        the persona formerly known as Anahita
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