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Re: [Authentic_SCA] Re: Drawstring

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  • Tiffany Brown
    ... Dillybag is used in modern australian to mean bag for transporting eating utensils. They are almost always a piece of fabric folded in half and sewn into
    Message 1 of 15 , May 11, 2007
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      On 11/05/07, Julie Stackable <malvoisine@...> wrote:
      > Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag is
      > a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It is used
      > for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes.

      Dillybag is used in modern australian to mean bag for transporting
      eating utensils. They are almost always a piece of fabric folded in
      half and sewn into a flat bag with a drawstring top. I encountered
      this useage in girl guides, and I think boy scouts use it too.
      Considering how many australians or their parents were in these
      organisations, this could account for a large percentage of the
      population using this term.

      Rosie, the bag (like pouches) will work best if there is some friction
      between the drawstring and the bag. One way is to pass the drawstring
      through eyelets that are a little tight (whether only a pair, or
      several along hte top edge). Your typical dillybag would be the width
      of a plate wide, this makes for a drawstring that is about 1m long.
      This is just below the upper limits of easy fingerloop braiding
      without a helper or other device to overcome length difficulties.
      Other braiding techniques such as lucet, plaiting, whipcord braiding,
      fingerweaving, would also work well as a drawstring (some being easier
      to make longer, most slower to make than fingerloop), but none of them
      are as easy to doccument to your time period as fingerloop. (the
      doccumentability of lucet pre 1600 is still a topic of great debate).

      I'd be happy to show you how to fingerloop if you are down in
      melbourne, and I know there are some stormholders who would do the
      same, and know I've taught the basics to a few people from Cairnfell.
      I'd recommend crochet cotton for learning on (I think they call it all
      perle cotton in the US), the cheap chunky stuff for your first braid,
      and the rayon crochet cotton or dmc perle cotton isn't a bad imitation
      for silk as someone else said. Real silk can really hurt the fingers
      (and wallet) until you develop calusses, and too many wools stretch,
      snap or abrade to reccomend them for a beginner.

      you neightbour in Krae Glas,
      Teffania
    • Julie Stackable
      ... is used ... in ... Thanks for that - that was what I figured. Let me check my links tonight - there is a Belgian site linked off a needlework site that has
      Message 2 of 15 , May 11, 2007
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Tiffany Brown" <teffania@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > On 11/05/07, Julie Stackable <malvoisine@...> wrote:
        > > Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag is
        > > a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It
        is used
        > > for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes.
        >
        > Dillybag is used in modern australian to mean bag for transporting
        > eating utensils. They are almost always a piece of fabric folded
        in
        > half and sewn into a flat bag with a drawstring top. I encountered
        > this useage in girl guides, and I think boy scouts use it too.
        > Considering how many australians or their parents were in these
        > organisations, this could account for a large percentage of the
        > population using this term.

        Thanks for that - that was what I figured. Let me check my links
        tonight - there is a Belgian site linked off a needlework site that
        has a ton of pictures of reliquary bags with lots of variations on
        how to draw it shut, including eyelets and the standard 'tube'
        variation. I'll post some links in a bit.

        Margaret Hepburn
      • Rosie
        ... is ... used ... Hi Margaret, I know what I m talking about, even if no one else does! Having been in Guides for years I m accustomed to using the term
        Message 3 of 15 , May 11, 2007
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          > Please forgive my complete and utter ignorance. I didn't know what a
          > dilly bag was, so I looked it up. Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag
          is
          > a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It is
          used
          > for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes.

          Hi Margaret,
          I know what I'm talking about, even if no one else does! Having been in
          Guides for years I'm accustomed to using the term "dilly bag" to mean
          the bag I carry my crockery, cutlery and related items around it. Other
          people call it a "mess kit" I think. Basically I'm making little
          quilted bags for each item (since I don't want them scratching each
          other) then a larger bag to keep them all in.
          :)
          Rosie
        • wodeford
          ... Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the same, especially if dilly has
          Message 4 of 15 , May 11, 2007
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
            > Hi Margaret,
            > I know what I'm talking about, even if no one else does! Having been in
            > Guides for years I'm accustomed to using the term "dilly bag" to mean
            > the bag I carry my crockery, cutlery and related items around it.

            Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to
            his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the same, especially
            if "dilly" has Aboriginal etymology, but still surprisingly close.

            (Don't mind me, I'm waiting for laundry to cycle and I'm bored.)

            Jehanne de Wodeford
            West
          • julian wilson
            wodeford wrote: Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the
            Message 5 of 15 , May 12, 2007
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              wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:

              Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to
              his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the same, especially
              if "dilly" has Aboriginal etymology, but still surprisingly close.
              SNIP
              Jehanne de Wodeford

              COMMENT
              Gentle Lady Jehanne,
              my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be good to him - She'll hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small whitewood box [kept from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in 1916, so that takes us back near-on a Century for a known use of the word "ditty".

              Matthew Baker, dwelling in "old" Jersey.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Rosie
              ... Teffania! Thanks! We were already planning to come down to June Bash. Daddy can be on baby holding duty this time so I can get something productive done.
              Message 6 of 15 , May 12, 2007
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                > I'd be happy to show you how to fingerloop if you are down in
                > melbourne, and I know there are some stormholders who would do the
                > same, and know I've taught the basics to a few people from Cairnfell.
                > I'd recommend crochet cotton for learning on (I think they call it all
                > perle cotton in the US), the cheap chunky stuff for your first braid,
                > and the rayon crochet cotton or dmc perle cotton isn't a bad imitation
                > for silk as someone else said. Real silk can really hurt the fingers
                > (and wallet) until you develop calusses, and too many wools stretch,
                > snap or abrade to reccomend them for a beginner.

                Teffania! Thanks! We were already planning to come down to June
                Bash. "Daddy" can be on baby holding duty this time so I can get
                something productive done. :D
                For the project, not the practising, I wanted to use the linen sewing
                thread I've been using for the stitching so the colour matches. Is
                there any reason why this wouldn't work? It's a bit stiff, so I don't
                suppose it would braid tightly. Does it need to braid tightly? I've
                only seen fingerloop done in silk so haven't much to judge by.
                Cheers,
                Rosie
              • Rosie
                ... hear bout it from me if she isn t] - had a small whitewood box [kept from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he referred to as his
                Message 7 of 15 , May 12, 2007
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                  > my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be good to him - She'll
                  hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small whitewood box [kept
                  from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he
                  referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in 1916, so that takes us
                  back near-on a Century for a known use of the word "ditty".

                  Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep our ditties in bags
                  or boxes. To me a ditty is a few lines of what would be a song if it
                  was longer; usually a bit rude or otherwise bordering on disgusting. My
                  mum had a horrible collection she picked up from her father (who was in
                  the navy) and her grandmother (most of her menfolk were in the army.)
                  Most I wouldn't repeat...
                  Rosie
                • Greg Lindahl
                  ... ... that s what a ditty is in the US, too. I don t know why a ditty bag is a ditty bag, but a ditty is as you describe it. -- Gregory
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 12, 2007
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                    On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 10:11:06PM -0000, Rosie wrote:

                    > Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep our ditties in bags
                    > or boxes. To me a ditty is a few lines of what would be a song if it
                    > was longer;

                    ... that's what a ditty is in the US, too.

                    I don't know why a ditty bag is a ditty bag, but a ditty is as you
                    describe it.

                    -- Gregory
                  • Jenn Ridley
                    On Sat, 12 May 2007 22:11:06 -0000, Rosie ... That s true in my part of the US as well, but the bag/box you keep your personal stuff
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 13, 2007
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                      On Sat, 12 May 2007 22:11:06 -0000, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...>
                      wrote:

                      >> my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be good to him - She'll
                      >hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small whitewood box [kept
                      >from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he
                      >referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in 1916, so that takes us
                      >back near-on a Century for a known use of the word "ditty".
                      >
                      >Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep our ditties in bags
                      >or boxes. To me a ditty is a few lines of what would be a song if it
                      >was longer; usually a bit rude or otherwise bordering on disgusting. My
                      >mum had a horrible collection she picked up from her father (who was in
                      >the navy) and her grandmother (most of her menfolk were in the army.)
                      >Most I wouldn't repeat...

                      That's true in my part of the US as well, but the bag/box you keep
                      your personal stuff (toothbrush/toothpaste, razor, comb, eating
                      utensils, soap) is still called a ditty bag/box. My grandfather kept
                      his on the counter in the bathroom -- I'm fairly sure it was a more
                      contemporary replacement of the bag he was issued in 1915 (USArmy). My
                      dad used one for years whenever we traveled -- Mom got him a
                      'civilian' one for their honeymoon to replace the one he'd gotten in
                      basic.

                      So it's a ditty bag/box without any ditties in it. Welcome to the
                      English language :)

                      stasia

                      --
                      Anastasia Emilianova
                      Jenn Ridley : jridley@...
                    • Ann Catelli
                      ... I ve had mess kits (eating food, and sometimes cooking it) and ditty bags (toiletries), which terms I picked up from my Dad, who went all the way to Eagle
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 13, 2007
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                        --- Rosie <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:

                        > > my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be
                        > good to him - She'll
                        > hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small
                        > whitewood box [kept
                        > from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in
                        > 1924], - which he
                        > referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in
                        > 1916, so that takes us
                        > back near-on a Century for a known use of the word
                        > "ditty".
                        >
                        > Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep
                        > our ditties in bags or boxes. To me a ditty is a
                        > few lines of what would be a song if it was longer;
                        > Rosie

                        I've had mess kits (eating food, and sometimes cooking
                        it) and ditty bags (toiletries), which terms I picked
                        up from my Dad, who went all the way to Eagle Scout in
                        the 40's. The Boy Scout connection would tend, I
                        think, to indicate a military origin or popularization
                        of the words.

                        A ditty can also be a song--what was called a maggot
                        in Playford, no?

                        Ann in CT



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                      • Karen
                        Both of these definitions seem to fit: A sailor s small bag to hold thread, needles, tape, etc.; - also called sailor s housewife and A small handsewn bag
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 13, 2007
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                          Both of these definitions seem to fit: "A sailor's small bag to hold
                          thread, needles, tape, etc.; - also called sailor's housewife" and "A
                          small handsewn bag holding a sailor's personal gear". Also known in
                          the US Navy as a sea bag.
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