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Re: Drawstring

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  • Carol Keith
    [MODERATOR NOTE - As a courtesy to the many members who receive their messages from this list in digest form, please do not top post. Thank you. Jehanne de
    Message 1 of 15 , May 9, 2007
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      [MODERATOR NOTE - As a courtesy to the many members who receive their messages from this list in digest form, please do not top post. Thank
      you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator]

      Five-loop fingerbraid might be a good choice.
      DMC floss give a rather lovely product (imitates silk), and is good for beginners to learn on.

      Good instructions to be found in Museum of London's "Textiles and Clothing"

      ~ Isolda.

      Rosie wrote:

      > Any opinions on what the most appropriate method of
      > cord making would be?
      > Rosie
      > Cairnfell North, Lochac
    • Julie Stackable
      ... competition ... Rosie, Please forgive my complete and utter ignorance. I didn t know what a dilly bag was, so I looked it up. Wiki said A dillybag or
      Message 2 of 15 , May 10, 2007
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        --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi All,
        > I'm making a quilted dilly bag, hopefully for the baronial
        competition
        > later in the year. The comp is not for a specific craft, but a time
        > period 1450-1600. Any opinions on what the most appropriate method of
        > cord making would be?
        > Rosie
        > Cairnfell North, Lochac

        Rosie,
        Please forgive my complete and utter ignorance. I didn't know what a
        dilly bag was, so I looked it up. Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag is
        a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It is used
        for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes. It is
        generally woven from the fibres of plant species of the Pandanus genus.'
        (and yes, I know Wiki is not the best source in the world).

        Since you want to go with a 1450-1600 time period, can I assume that
        you are using 'dilly bag' as just a generic term? I was just curious,
        seriously not trying to nitpick or be difficult.

        Margaret Hepburn
      • Tiffany Brown
        ... Dillybag is used in modern australian to mean bag for transporting eating utensils. They are almost always a piece of fabric folded in half and sewn into
        Message 3 of 15 , May 11, 2007
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          On 11/05/07, Julie Stackable <malvoisine@...> wrote:
          > Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag is
          > a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It is used
          > for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes.

          Dillybag is used in modern australian to mean bag for transporting
          eating utensils. They are almost always a piece of fabric folded in
          half and sewn into a flat bag with a drawstring top. I encountered
          this useage in girl guides, and I think boy scouts use it too.
          Considering how many australians or their parents were in these
          organisations, this could account for a large percentage of the
          population using this term.

          Rosie, the bag (like pouches) will work best if there is some friction
          between the drawstring and the bag. One way is to pass the drawstring
          through eyelets that are a little tight (whether only a pair, or
          several along hte top edge). Your typical dillybag would be the width
          of a plate wide, this makes for a drawstring that is about 1m long.
          This is just below the upper limits of easy fingerloop braiding
          without a helper or other device to overcome length difficulties.
          Other braiding techniques such as lucet, plaiting, whipcord braiding,
          fingerweaving, would also work well as a drawstring (some being easier
          to make longer, most slower to make than fingerloop), but none of them
          are as easy to doccument to your time period as fingerloop. (the
          doccumentability of lucet pre 1600 is still a topic of great debate).

          I'd be happy to show you how to fingerloop if you are down in
          melbourne, and I know there are some stormholders who would do the
          same, and know I've taught the basics to a few people from Cairnfell.
          I'd recommend crochet cotton for learning on (I think they call it all
          perle cotton in the US), the cheap chunky stuff for your first braid,
          and the rayon crochet cotton or dmc perle cotton isn't a bad imitation
          for silk as someone else said. Real silk can really hurt the fingers
          (and wallet) until you develop calusses, and too many wools stretch,
          snap or abrade to reccomend them for a beginner.

          you neightbour in Krae Glas,
          Teffania
        • Julie Stackable
          ... is used ... in ... Thanks for that - that was what I figured. Let me check my links tonight - there is a Belgian site linked off a needlework site that has
          Message 4 of 15 , May 11, 2007
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Tiffany Brown" <teffania@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > On 11/05/07, Julie Stackable <malvoisine@...> wrote:
            > > Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag is
            > > a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It
            is used
            > > for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes.
            >
            > Dillybag is used in modern australian to mean bag for transporting
            > eating utensils. They are almost always a piece of fabric folded
            in
            > half and sewn into a flat bag with a drawstring top. I encountered
            > this useage in girl guides, and I think boy scouts use it too.
            > Considering how many australians or their parents were in these
            > organisations, this could account for a large percentage of the
            > population using this term.

            Thanks for that - that was what I figured. Let me check my links
            tonight - there is a Belgian site linked off a needlework site that
            has a ton of pictures of reliquary bags with lots of variations on
            how to draw it shut, including eyelets and the standard 'tube'
            variation. I'll post some links in a bit.

            Margaret Hepburn
          • Rosie
            ... is ... used ... Hi Margaret, I know what I m talking about, even if no one else does! Having been in Guides for years I m accustomed to using the term
            Message 5 of 15 , May 11, 2007
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              > Please forgive my complete and utter ignorance. I didn't know what a
              > dilly bag was, so I looked it up. Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag
              is
              > a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It is
              used
              > for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes.

              Hi Margaret,
              I know what I'm talking about, even if no one else does! Having been in
              Guides for years I'm accustomed to using the term "dilly bag" to mean
              the bag I carry my crockery, cutlery and related items around it. Other
              people call it a "mess kit" I think. Basically I'm making little
              quilted bags for each item (since I don't want them scratching each
              other) then a larger bag to keep them all in.
              :)
              Rosie
            • wodeford
              ... Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the same, especially if dilly has
              Message 6 of 15 , May 11, 2007
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                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                > Hi Margaret,
                > I know what I'm talking about, even if no one else does! Having been in
                > Guides for years I'm accustomed to using the term "dilly bag" to mean
                > the bag I carry my crockery, cutlery and related items around it.

                Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to
                his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the same, especially
                if "dilly" has Aboriginal etymology, but still surprisingly close.

                (Don't mind me, I'm waiting for laundry to cycle and I'm bored.)

                Jehanne de Wodeford
                West
              • julian wilson
                wodeford wrote: Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the
                Message 7 of 15 , May 12, 2007
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                  wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:

                  Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to
                  his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the same, especially
                  if "dilly" has Aboriginal etymology, but still surprisingly close.
                  SNIP
                  Jehanne de Wodeford

                  COMMENT
                  Gentle Lady Jehanne,
                  my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be good to him - She'll hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small whitewood box [kept from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in 1916, so that takes us back near-on a Century for a known use of the word "ditty".

                  Matthew Baker, dwelling in "old" Jersey.




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rosie
                  ... Teffania! Thanks! We were already planning to come down to June Bash. Daddy can be on baby holding duty this time so I can get something productive done.
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 12, 2007
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                    > I'd be happy to show you how to fingerloop if you are down in
                    > melbourne, and I know there are some stormholders who would do the
                    > same, and know I've taught the basics to a few people from Cairnfell.
                    > I'd recommend crochet cotton for learning on (I think they call it all
                    > perle cotton in the US), the cheap chunky stuff for your first braid,
                    > and the rayon crochet cotton or dmc perle cotton isn't a bad imitation
                    > for silk as someone else said. Real silk can really hurt the fingers
                    > (and wallet) until you develop calusses, and too many wools stretch,
                    > snap or abrade to reccomend them for a beginner.

                    Teffania! Thanks! We were already planning to come down to June
                    Bash. "Daddy" can be on baby holding duty this time so I can get
                    something productive done. :D
                    For the project, not the practising, I wanted to use the linen sewing
                    thread I've been using for the stitching so the colour matches. Is
                    there any reason why this wouldn't work? It's a bit stiff, so I don't
                    suppose it would braid tightly. Does it need to braid tightly? I've
                    only seen fingerloop done in silk so haven't much to judge by.
                    Cheers,
                    Rosie
                  • Rosie
                    ... hear bout it from me if she isn t] - had a small whitewood box [kept from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he referred to as his
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 12, 2007
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                      > my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be good to him - She'll
                      hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small whitewood box [kept
                      from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he
                      referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in 1916, so that takes us
                      back near-on a Century for a known use of the word "ditty".

                      Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep our ditties in bags
                      or boxes. To me a ditty is a few lines of what would be a song if it
                      was longer; usually a bit rude or otherwise bordering on disgusting. My
                      mum had a horrible collection she picked up from her father (who was in
                      the navy) and her grandmother (most of her menfolk were in the army.)
                      Most I wouldn't repeat...
                      Rosie
                    • Greg Lindahl
                      ... ... that s what a ditty is in the US, too. I don t know why a ditty bag is a ditty bag, but a ditty is as you describe it. -- Gregory
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 12, 2007
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                        On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 10:11:06PM -0000, Rosie wrote:

                        > Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep our ditties in bags
                        > or boxes. To me a ditty is a few lines of what would be a song if it
                        > was longer;

                        ... that's what a ditty is in the US, too.

                        I don't know why a ditty bag is a ditty bag, but a ditty is as you
                        describe it.

                        -- Gregory
                      • Jenn Ridley
                        On Sat, 12 May 2007 22:11:06 -0000, Rosie ... That s true in my part of the US as well, but the bag/box you keep your personal stuff
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 13, 2007
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                          On Sat, 12 May 2007 22:11:06 -0000, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...>
                          wrote:

                          >> my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be good to him - She'll
                          >hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small whitewood box [kept
                          >from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he
                          >referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in 1916, so that takes us
                          >back near-on a Century for a known use of the word "ditty".
                          >
                          >Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep our ditties in bags
                          >or boxes. To me a ditty is a few lines of what would be a song if it
                          >was longer; usually a bit rude or otherwise bordering on disgusting. My
                          >mum had a horrible collection she picked up from her father (who was in
                          >the navy) and her grandmother (most of her menfolk were in the army.)
                          >Most I wouldn't repeat...

                          That's true in my part of the US as well, but the bag/box you keep
                          your personal stuff (toothbrush/toothpaste, razor, comb, eating
                          utensils, soap) is still called a ditty bag/box. My grandfather kept
                          his on the counter in the bathroom -- I'm fairly sure it was a more
                          contemporary replacement of the bag he was issued in 1915 (USArmy). My
                          dad used one for years whenever we traveled -- Mom got him a
                          'civilian' one for their honeymoon to replace the one he'd gotten in
                          basic.

                          So it's a ditty bag/box without any ditties in it. Welcome to the
                          English language :)

                          stasia

                          --
                          Anastasia Emilianova
                          Jenn Ridley : jridley@...
                        • Ann Catelli
                          ... I ve had mess kits (eating food, and sometimes cooking it) and ditty bags (toiletries), which terms I picked up from my Dad, who went all the way to Eagle
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 13, 2007
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                            --- Rosie <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:

                            > > my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be
                            > good to him - She'll
                            > hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small
                            > whitewood box [kept
                            > from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in
                            > 1924], - which he
                            > referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in
                            > 1916, so that takes us
                            > back near-on a Century for a known use of the word
                            > "ditty".
                            >
                            > Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep
                            > our ditties in bags or boxes. To me a ditty is a
                            > few lines of what would be a song if it was longer;
                            > Rosie

                            I've had mess kits (eating food, and sometimes cooking
                            it) and ditty bags (toiletries), which terms I picked
                            up from my Dad, who went all the way to Eagle Scout in
                            the 40's. The Boy Scout connection would tend, I
                            think, to indicate a military origin or popularization
                            of the words.

                            A ditty can also be a song--what was called a maggot
                            in Playford, no?

                            Ann in CT



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                          • Karen
                            Both of these definitions seem to fit: A sailor s small bag to hold thread, needles, tape, etc.; - also called sailor s housewife and A small handsewn bag
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 13, 2007
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                              Both of these definitions seem to fit: "A sailor's small bag to hold
                              thread, needles, tape, etc.; - also called sailor's housewife" and "A
                              small handsewn bag holding a sailor's personal gear". Also known in
                              the US Navy as a sea bag.
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