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Drawstring

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  • Rosie
    Hi All, I m making a quilted dilly bag, hopefully for the baronial competition later in the year. The comp is not for a specific craft, but a time period
    Message 1 of 15 , May 9 3:09 PM
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      Hi All,
      I'm making a quilted dilly bag, hopefully for the baronial competition
      later in the year. The comp is not for a specific craft, but a time
      period 1450-1600. Any opinions on what the most appropriate method of
      cord making would be?
      Rosie
      Cairnfell North, Lochac
    • Lilinah
      ... Fingerlooping. Exactly which cord i can t predict. One good on-line source is http://fingerloop.org which is based on a Compleat Anachronist of a couple
      Message 2 of 15 , May 9 3:18 PM
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        Rosie wrote:
        >I'm making a quilted dilly bag, hopefully for the baronial competition
        >later in the year. The comp is not for a specific craft, but a time
        >period 1450-1600. Any opinions on what the most appropriate method of
        >cord making would be?

        Fingerlooping. Exactly which cord i can't predict.
        One good on-line source is
        http://fingerloop.org
        which is based on a Compleat Anachronist of a couple years ago.

        --
        Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
        the persona formerly known as Anahita
      • Carol Keith
        [MODERATOR NOTE - As a courtesy to the many members who receive their messages from this list in digest form, please do not top post. Thank you. Jehanne de
        Message 3 of 15 , May 9 5:41 PM
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          [MODERATOR NOTE - As a courtesy to the many members who receive their messages from this list in digest form, please do not top post. Thank
          you. Jehanne de Wodeford, Pacific Time Zone Moderator]

          Five-loop fingerbraid might be a good choice.
          DMC floss give a rather lovely product (imitates silk), and is good for beginners to learn on.

          Good instructions to be found in Museum of London's "Textiles and Clothing"

          ~ Isolda.

          Rosie wrote:

          > Any opinions on what the most appropriate method of
          > cord making would be?
          > Rosie
          > Cairnfell North, Lochac
        • Julie Stackable
          ... competition ... Rosie, Please forgive my complete and utter ignorance. I didn t know what a dilly bag was, so I looked it up. Wiki said A dillybag or
          Message 4 of 15 , May 10 12:37 PM
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            --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi All,
            > I'm making a quilted dilly bag, hopefully for the baronial
            competition
            > later in the year. The comp is not for a specific craft, but a time
            > period 1450-1600. Any opinions on what the most appropriate method of
            > cord making would be?
            > Rosie
            > Cairnfell North, Lochac

            Rosie,
            Please forgive my complete and utter ignorance. I didn't know what a
            dilly bag was, so I looked it up. Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag is
            a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It is used
            for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes. It is
            generally woven from the fibres of plant species of the Pandanus genus.'
            (and yes, I know Wiki is not the best source in the world).

            Since you want to go with a 1450-1600 time period, can I assume that
            you are using 'dilly bag' as just a generic term? I was just curious,
            seriously not trying to nitpick or be difficult.

            Margaret Hepburn
          • Tiffany Brown
            ... Dillybag is used in modern australian to mean bag for transporting eating utensils. They are almost always a piece of fabric folded in half and sewn into
            Message 5 of 15 , May 11 7:18 AM
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              On 11/05/07, Julie Stackable <malvoisine@...> wrote:
              > Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag is
              > a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It is used
              > for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes.

              Dillybag is used in modern australian to mean bag for transporting
              eating utensils. They are almost always a piece of fabric folded in
              half and sewn into a flat bag with a drawstring top. I encountered
              this useage in girl guides, and I think boy scouts use it too.
              Considering how many australians or their parents were in these
              organisations, this could account for a large percentage of the
              population using this term.

              Rosie, the bag (like pouches) will work best if there is some friction
              between the drawstring and the bag. One way is to pass the drawstring
              through eyelets that are a little tight (whether only a pair, or
              several along hte top edge). Your typical dillybag would be the width
              of a plate wide, this makes for a drawstring that is about 1m long.
              This is just below the upper limits of easy fingerloop braiding
              without a helper or other device to overcome length difficulties.
              Other braiding techniques such as lucet, plaiting, whipcord braiding,
              fingerweaving, would also work well as a drawstring (some being easier
              to make longer, most slower to make than fingerloop), but none of them
              are as easy to doccument to your time period as fingerloop. (the
              doccumentability of lucet pre 1600 is still a topic of great debate).

              I'd be happy to show you how to fingerloop if you are down in
              melbourne, and I know there are some stormholders who would do the
              same, and know I've taught the basics to a few people from Cairnfell.
              I'd recommend crochet cotton for learning on (I think they call it all
              perle cotton in the US), the cheap chunky stuff for your first braid,
              and the rayon crochet cotton or dmc perle cotton isn't a bad imitation
              for silk as someone else said. Real silk can really hurt the fingers
              (and wallet) until you develop calusses, and too many wools stretch,
              snap or abrade to reccomend them for a beginner.

              you neightbour in Krae Glas,
              Teffania
            • Julie Stackable
              ... is used ... in ... Thanks for that - that was what I figured. Let me check my links tonight - there is a Belgian site linked off a needlework site that has
              Message 6 of 15 , May 11 4:08 PM
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                --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Tiffany Brown" <teffania@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > On 11/05/07, Julie Stackable <malvoisine@...> wrote:
                > > Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag is
                > > a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It
                is used
                > > for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes.
                >
                > Dillybag is used in modern australian to mean bag for transporting
                > eating utensils. They are almost always a piece of fabric folded
                in
                > half and sewn into a flat bag with a drawstring top. I encountered
                > this useage in girl guides, and I think boy scouts use it too.
                > Considering how many australians or their parents were in these
                > organisations, this could account for a large percentage of the
                > population using this term.

                Thanks for that - that was what I figured. Let me check my links
                tonight - there is a Belgian site linked off a needlework site that
                has a ton of pictures of reliquary bags with lots of variations on
                how to draw it shut, including eyelets and the standard 'tube'
                variation. I'll post some links in a bit.

                Margaret Hepburn
              • Rosie
                ... is ... used ... Hi Margaret, I know what I m talking about, even if no one else does! Having been in Guides for years I m accustomed to using the term
                Message 7 of 15 , May 11 5:13 PM
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                  > Please forgive my complete and utter ignorance. I didn't know what a
                  > dilly bag was, so I looked it up. Wiki said 'A dillybag or dilly bag
                  is
                  > a traditional woven bag, original to Australian Aboriginals. It is
                  used
                  > for a variety of food transportation and preparation purposes.

                  Hi Margaret,
                  I know what I'm talking about, even if no one else does! Having been in
                  Guides for years I'm accustomed to using the term "dilly bag" to mean
                  the bag I carry my crockery, cutlery and related items around it. Other
                  people call it a "mess kit" I think. Basically I'm making little
                  quilted bags for each item (since I don't want them scratching each
                  other) then a larger bag to keep them all in.
                  :)
                  Rosie
                • wodeford
                  ... Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the same, especially if dilly has
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 11 6:13 PM
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                    --- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                    > Hi Margaret,
                    > I know what I'm talking about, even if no one else does! Having been in
                    > Guides for years I'm accustomed to using the term "dilly bag" to mean
                    > the bag I carry my crockery, cutlery and related items around it.

                    Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to
                    his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the same, especially
                    if "dilly" has Aboriginal etymology, but still surprisingly close.

                    (Don't mind me, I'm waiting for laundry to cycle and I'm bored.)

                    Jehanne de Wodeford
                    West
                  • julian wilson
                    wodeford wrote: Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 12 12:10 AM
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                      wodeford <wodeford@...> wrote:

                      Hmmm, a former boyfriend who had served in the Navy always referred to
                      his overnight toiletry case as a ditty bag. Not the same, especially
                      if "dilly" has Aboriginal etymology, but still surprisingly close.
                      SNIP
                      Jehanne de Wodeford

                      COMMENT
                      Gentle Lady Jehanne,
                      my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be good to him - She'll hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small whitewood box [kept from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in 1916, so that takes us back near-on a Century for a known use of the word "ditty".

                      Matthew Baker, dwelling in "old" Jersey.




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Rosie
                      ... Teffania! Thanks! We were already planning to come down to June Bash. Daddy can be on baby holding duty this time so I can get something productive done.
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 12 3:03 PM
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                        > I'd be happy to show you how to fingerloop if you are down in
                        > melbourne, and I know there are some stormholders who would do the
                        > same, and know I've taught the basics to a few people from Cairnfell.
                        > I'd recommend crochet cotton for learning on (I think they call it all
                        > perle cotton in the US), the cheap chunky stuff for your first braid,
                        > and the rayon crochet cotton or dmc perle cotton isn't a bad imitation
                        > for silk as someone else said. Real silk can really hurt the fingers
                        > (and wallet) until you develop calusses, and too many wools stretch,
                        > snap or abrade to reccomend them for a beginner.

                        Teffania! Thanks! We were already planning to come down to June
                        Bash. "Daddy" can be on baby holding duty this time so I can get
                        something productive done. :D
                        For the project, not the practising, I wanted to use the linen sewing
                        thread I've been using for the stitching so the colour matches. Is
                        there any reason why this wouldn't work? It's a bit stiff, so I don't
                        suppose it would braid tightly. Does it need to braid tightly? I've
                        only seen fingerloop done in silk so haven't much to judge by.
                        Cheers,
                        Rosie
                      • Rosie
                        ... hear bout it from me if she isn t] - had a small whitewood box [kept from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he referred to as his
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 12 3:11 PM
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                          > my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be good to him - She'll
                          hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small whitewood box [kept
                          from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he
                          referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in 1916, so that takes us
                          back near-on a Century for a known use of the word "ditty".

                          Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep our ditties in bags
                          or boxes. To me a ditty is a few lines of what would be a song if it
                          was longer; usually a bit rude or otherwise bordering on disgusting. My
                          mum had a horrible collection she picked up from her father (who was in
                          the navy) and her grandmother (most of her menfolk were in the army.)
                          Most I wouldn't repeat...
                          Rosie
                        • Greg Lindahl
                          ... ... that s what a ditty is in the US, too. I don t know why a ditty bag is a ditty bag, but a ditty is as you describe it. -- Gregory
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 12 11:02 PM
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                            On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 10:11:06PM -0000, Rosie wrote:

                            > Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep our ditties in bags
                            > or boxes. To me a ditty is a few lines of what would be a song if it
                            > was longer;

                            ... that's what a ditty is in the US, too.

                            I don't know why a ditty bag is a ditty bag, but a ditty is as you
                            describe it.

                            -- Gregory
                          • Jenn Ridley
                            On Sat, 12 May 2007 22:11:06 -0000, Rosie ... That s true in my part of the US as well, but the bag/box you keep your personal stuff
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 13 5:35 AM
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                              On Sat, 12 May 2007 22:11:06 -0000, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...>
                              wrote:

                              >> my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be good to him - She'll
                              >hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small whitewood box [kept
                              >from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in 1924], - which he
                              >referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in 1916, so that takes us
                              >back near-on a Century for a known use of the word "ditty".
                              >
                              >Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep our ditties in bags
                              >or boxes. To me a ditty is a few lines of what would be a song if it
                              >was longer; usually a bit rude or otherwise bordering on disgusting. My
                              >mum had a horrible collection she picked up from her father (who was in
                              >the navy) and her grandmother (most of her menfolk were in the army.)
                              >Most I wouldn't repeat...

                              That's true in my part of the US as well, but the bag/box you keep
                              your personal stuff (toothbrush/toothpaste, razor, comb, eating
                              utensils, soap) is still called a ditty bag/box. My grandfather kept
                              his on the counter in the bathroom -- I'm fairly sure it was a more
                              contemporary replacement of the bag he was issued in 1915 (USArmy). My
                              dad used one for years whenever we traveled -- Mom got him a
                              'civilian' one for their honeymoon to replace the one he'd gotten in
                              basic.

                              So it's a ditty bag/box without any ditties in it. Welcome to the
                              English language :)

                              stasia

                              --
                              Anastasia Emilianova
                              Jenn Ridley : jridley@...
                            • Ann Catelli
                              ... I ve had mess kits (eating food, and sometimes cooking it) and ditty bags (toiletries), which terms I picked up from my Dad, who went all the way to Eagle
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 13 9:08 AM
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                                --- Rosie <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:

                                > > my Father, [WW One Royal Navy, and may God be
                                > good to him - She'll
                                > hear bout it from me if she isn't] - had a small
                                > whitewood box [kept
                                > from his Navy kit when he bought himself out in
                                > 1924], - which he
                                > referred to as his "ditty box". Dad joined-up in
                                > 1916, so that takes us
                                > back near-on a Century for a known use of the word
                                > "ditty".
                                >
                                > Well, another cultural difference :) We don't keep
                                > our ditties in bags or boxes. To me a ditty is a
                                > few lines of what would be a song if it was longer;
                                > Rosie

                                I've had mess kits (eating food, and sometimes cooking
                                it) and ditty bags (toiletries), which terms I picked
                                up from my Dad, who went all the way to Eagle Scout in
                                the 40's. The Boy Scout connection would tend, I
                                think, to indicate a military origin or popularization
                                of the words.

                                A ditty can also be a song--what was called a maggot
                                in Playford, no?

                                Ann in CT



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                              • Karen
                                Both of these definitions seem to fit: A sailor s small bag to hold thread, needles, tape, etc.; - also called sailor s housewife and A small handsewn bag
                                Message 15 of 15 , May 13 9:10 AM
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                                  Both of these definitions seem to fit: "A sailor's small bag to hold
                                  thread, needles, tape, etc.; - also called sailor's housewife" and "A
                                  small handsewn bag holding a sailor's personal gear". Also known in
                                  the US Navy as a sea bag.
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